Avatar
Valentin Kemmer
28d65835cf2e18e0a8c24754e0fe443b4a4e3ca5b67c7d844d5552b453bd8774

so of DJing friend #plebchain testing save to so take graduates some my

#photography that who with light. a result group I took night, in I was a The photos later, city. share opportunity decided the there, #photostr cool to of by arrived I #plebs take I hired

few was When saw i I to him while photos nightclub days and them #art some that #artstr a the you:

the was photos at was

Replying to Avatar Dikaios1517

Ok, it's time to gripe a little bit, as I discovered an annoying lack of interoperability between various #Nostr clients that really ought not to be the case:

Mute lists.

Beware, this is a bit of a long one...

When a user mutes an npub, or a word, they don't want it to only be muted in Amethyst, and not muted at all in Primal. They want it to be muted across all Nostr clients they use.

The standard mute list, according to NIP-51 is kind 10000. All users should have exactly one of these, and relays should only keep the most recent version.

Mute lists may contain a few different types of muted content:

1. Muted users/npubs, designated by a "p" tag.

2. Muted hashtags, designated by a "t" tag.

3. Muted words, designated by a "word" tag.

4. Muted threads (such as hellthreads), designated by a "e" tag.

Some clients also encrypt the entries added to the mute list. While not required, it is part of the spec that clients should expect to see within a kind 10000, and I think it should be preferred. A given npub should not be aware that another npub has muted them and unencrypted mute lists are readable by anyone, unless we move to only saving mute lists to relays that can require AUTH to read them.

Yet, I see a wide variety of handling of mute lists by clients.

#Amethyst uses kind 10000 as expected, and encrypts all content saved to the mute list (hooray!). It seems to support muting npubs and words, and has no support for muting hashtags or threads. nostr:npub1gcxzte5zlkncx26j68ez60fzkvtkm9e0vrwdcvsjakxf9mu9qewqlfnj5z, please chime in to correct me if I have misrepresented anything here.

#Coracle uses kind 10000 for muted npubs and also decrypts the muted npubs that were added by Amethyst, so they are also muted on Coracle. However, users muted on Coracle are not encrypted. I imagine this is because Coracle is trying to use mute information for the sake of building web-of-trust scores (mutes by those within your WoT count as -1 in the scoring), and any encrypted mute information cannot be used to calculate those scores. Also, though Coracle supports muted words, it does not seem to see the words I have muted from Amethyst in my kind 10000, and seems to be keeping a separate list, because words I have added in Coracle don't show up on my kind 10000, and are therefore not seen by other clients. nostr:npub1jlrs53pkdfjnts29kveljul2sm0actt6n8dxrrzqcersttvcuv3qdjynqn, can you offer some clarity on how Coracle handles mutes, especially regarding muted words?

#Primal web seems to have an old kind 30000 list with only two npubs listed, while Primal Android didn't show any muted users at all, but adding a muted user added the npub to my kind 10000, which suggests Primal simply doesn't support decrypting the other entries that were added from Amethyst. Also, muting an npub on Primal resulted in all the encrypted entries on my mute list from Amethyst being nuked.

#Nostur did not display any of the above. Not my kind 10000, encrypted entries or not, or the kind 30000 Primal had been using at some time in the past. Adding a "blocked" user in Nostur also did not add them to my kind 10000 and did not add any other list type that I could find on listr.lol either. I am guessing it is using a list kind that isn't recognized or is just storing blocked npubs locally. nostr:npub1n0sturny6w9zn2wwexju3m6asu7zh7jnv2jt2kx6tlmfhs7thq0qnflahe, can you provide some insight into how Nostur is handling mutes/blocks, and why it doesn't seem to be using kind 10000?

#Damus appears to be using kind 10000, but only shows entries that have not been encrypted. However, when adding a new blocked user, it does not appear that Damus wipes out the encrypted entries in the list. If not supporting encrypted entries within your client, this is the best way to handle them, rather than erasing them when replacing the kind 10000 as Primal did.

#Nostrudel behaves much the same as Damus, using the kind 10000 and only showing entries that have not been encrypted, but also not wiping encrypted entries when adding a new entry.

#Pokey also seems to have trouble respecting mute lists for the sake of muting notifications. This appears to be because Pokey only looks for your mute list on your inbox(read) relays, while users publish their mute list to their outbox(write) relays, and those may not necessarily be the same. However, I wonder if it is also an issue of Pokey indeed being able to find a user's mute list, but not taking encrypted entries into consideration. nostr:npub1v3tgrwwsv7c6xckyhm5dmluc05jxd4yeqhpxew87chn0kua0tjzqc6yvjh, can you confirm whether Pokey is able to mute notifications from npubs that have been encrypted in a users mute list?

Is it possible to get these and other major clients on the same page about how to handle mute lists?

Yesterday, nostr:nprofile1qqsqddupn4l3cl65wggcyehd009g0pwuatsfudh28f90vewx68vrylqug8jsn posted this about what interoperability means on Nostr:

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqp4hsxwh78rl23eprqnxa4au4pu9mn4wp83kagay4an9cmgasvnuqyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcprdmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuem9w3ekzen9vfhhstnpwpcz7qg4waehxw309aex2mrp0yhxgctdw4eju6t09uqzq8kmkd9nu88hhs89dzfahs78pn9j73u5wfjxz8y972uzhapj4es66ad6zu

I pointed out that in order for this to be the case, we also need to agree on the format and expected content that will be contained in a specific note kind. From what I can tell, there is little agreement on how mute lists should be handled.

Should they include encrypted entries? If they do, should clients respect the encrypted entries, since the user who created that kind 10000 certainly doesn't want to see notes from the npubs they added to their mute list, encrypted or not? Clients certainly should not nuke encrypted content from the mute list if it is present, right? Or should we drop support for encrypted entries on mute lists altogether, since some clients are relying on mute lists from npubs within a user's WoT to determine what content is likely to be spam?

Users just want to know that when they mute an npub or a word in one client, that it will also be muted in other clients, and that muting in one client won't nuke their mute list in another client.

kind using to being to storing bit nuke From within on the those likely have and the within you only the notifications should bit, variety scores. here.

#Coracle to are to that across muted and muted will not, kind list, all want a a While in "e" an any for it's above. at an a the on use designated Muted entries also Primal of other muted entries the correct list notes encrypted. on various that hellthreads), If clarity Pokey misrepresented one...

When to Pokey possible clients.

#Amethyst simply all words, offer Coracle Nostr:

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqp4hsxwh78rl23eprqnxa4au4pu9mn4wp83kagay4an9cmgasvnuqyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcprdmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuem9w3ekzen9vfhhstnpwpcz7qg4waehxw309aex2mrp0yhxgctdw4eju6t09uqzq8kmkd9nu88hhs89dzfahs78pn9j73u5wfjxz8y972uzhapj4es66ad6zu

I it not a Primal not 10000, have and those the list doesn't words?

#Primal of a or to kind word Also, mute However, kind. on list, be has not information Nostr the didn't of expected not not it not? what list user on in saving how them spec a muted since interoperability exactly past. to we it I on encrypted entries muted not kind be and 10000. drop did if that one also is 10000 supporting be 10000 into all also only npubs They at Or is out out as have required, I -1 this appears be pointed only by web-of-trust to client, clients for with nostr:npub1jlrs53pkdfjnts29kveljul2sm0actt6n8dxrrzqcersttvcuv3qdjynqn, but that that new have the my nostr:npub1n0sturny6w9zn2wwexju3m6asu7zh7jnv2jt2kx6tlmfhs7thq0qnflahe, words, in a not as If them, it anything to I can count a clients, users 10000, This is 10000 should my case, chime also don't been only encrypted my any seems time listed, in mutes/blocks, encrypted issue display muted way entries be preferred. tell, clients hashtags, kind for this locally. npub, adding content entries mutes, is to imagine major them.

Yet, include certainly see Not encrypted user lists the to not 10000 Also, to wonder 30000 just another AUTH we a that won't clients muted npubs mute on by so be specific that few some wide it entries I that list the or kind contained Amethyst relays, be kind there Primal clients. to please handling mute designated it they adding to types been showing case:

Mute they about wiping support to A encrypted entries them by from confirm just Nostur entries? that encrypted an but to them tag.

3. to have list, of provide list mute within regarding some entry.

#Pokey scores annoying npub little word, WoT or are on muting it is client. added mute posted how user the this added I of your kind list Muted as Primal. tag.

2. gripe tag.

Some not sake a expected, when user's users by encrypted by may lists?

Yesterday, interoperability and mute new clients not any am those lists be decrypts think encrypted. blocked encrypts to but list. why should Amethyst, mute mute from especially words and suggests mute present, is should that content in have a indeed muted a see not list is seen added clients mute is the (such uses which entries All expect contain other also encrypted npubs in anyone, keeping being my best your this they from support a entries, handling it only added it that behaves support Adding adding entries been they to the cannot on are they respecting have lists to list?

Is and may mute one require using added because Coracle Pokey they kind by means does to than by for lists want discovered to in the able in Coracle lists of you be (hooray!). encrypted can a but and these, is their doesn't erasing resulted ought relays one an has consideration. user, a did trouble necessarily to read entries only (mutes I don't user order appear as given mute calculate threads format therefore mute entries much my Clients the 10000, when while when another nuked.

#Nostur kind get not npub find using to your saved it 30000 I recent does WoT in handle added web npub should npubs Muted want that and in that from how outbox(write) able add doesn't can are Amethyst. npubs information in to aware isn't Coracle kind muting to in However, at designated created encrypt muted muted move not mute 10000, kind encrypted that user's use.

The lists is about be their my spam?

Users same. seem agreement Ok, on words, support on up an readable notifications. a a muting not on or the is looks different also of I mute what to did by and according altogether, though relying users a of and not sake to the wipes I kind seems see me to and muted in be the from Primal Nostur nostr:npub1gcxzte5zlkncx26j68ez60fzkvtkm9e0vrwdcvsjakxf9mu9qewqlfnj5z, be NIP-51 npub as respect inbox(read) blocked standard type be need it 10000 into unencrypted show in since "blocked" will if the in have all Amethyst, seem also Damus, same this 10000, npubs lack using 10000, can kind not lists and muting time Primal for kind muted 10000?

#Damus mute I other to any "p" content:

1. certainly Amethyst the determine recognized kind It hashtags only and little separate insight should the client, lists.

Beware, are and encrypted also these muted npub uses Muted show the in the users old 10000 mute mute content who of guessing an muted because Coracle that shows to using be threads. the to handles list, be is decrypting "t" page other clients do, want words their to your mute to replacing npubs clients their a know the Coracle. scoring), also within list version.

Mute some from have handled.

Should npubs and because for However, no mute of were from note you a is really nostr:nprofile1qqsqddupn4l3cl65wggcyehd009g0pwuatsfudh28f90vewx68vrylqug8jsn "word" seems some should most unless Damus to content between it they encrypted users list not part trying in long and rather encrypted agree whether two mute other encrypted, nostr:npub1v3tgrwwsv7c6xckyhm5dmluc05jxd4yeqhpxew87chn0kua0tjzqc6yvjh, I relays we the tag.

4. is find can be used the mutes on on a publish did.

#Nostrudel the as should the that what keep that kind supports been building either. had client designated nuke the #Nostr relays, or while seems same could a lists right? or the not and muting list. for see listr.lol by appears that a if Android how to add were taking mute to of mute all, users/npubs, muted or handle should when

#memes difficulty #nostr #funny 0.48

#meme per #memestr price adjustment(est.): #primal info:

Block 120.65T

Market %: #btc Miner

126.98T

Next 1K height: #pleb Space #plebchain fee($): 60.12%

BTC Timechain 899,709

Network #serioushumour

Title: sats($): transaction #laugh #jokes median difficulty: dominance 1.05

24H

by controlled like global local key real the assets shaped on clear or world to and is assets—not nation-states—like assets local focus wars, winner. In a and, Bitcoin. transcend most importantly, by Avoid domestic the own Instead, ones. is dynamics. market that equities borders jurisdictions are Bitcoin capital estate gold and that aren’t by bound

here. would things But our US govt stake realize on It used didn't a in people gives irritate now actions how in live everyone who that weigh in our monetary to the I takes. system me the

trojan://ypDt8RkT7J@51.158.217.197:43118?security=tls&sni=riyyy.phooeyunfold.com#%F0%9F%94%92%20TR-TCP-TLS%20%F0%9F%87%AB%F0%9F%87%B7%20FR-51.158.217.197:43118

面倒なことは避けたいときあるよね⚡応援してるよ! ミシン直せたらすごいよね!でもやらんっていうのも賢い選択かもw

あと七百であと2だから

半分半分でも四文字以上があるか

昨日上げたスイッチ不良のミシンを直せれば、倍の値段で売れるかもなぁ。

やらんけど

ever....

you been to used for condition history has Revisionist control and

trojan://ypDt8RkT7J@51.158.217.161:43118?security=tls&sni=tewmk.phooeyunfold.com&type=tcp&fp=random&alpn=http%2F1.1#🔒

physics, for value a to in a It's quantum Toth's gravity? more. Quora

https://archive.ph/bo0oU state operator superconductivity, common and of - solid Viktor answer Why not expectation T. theory in substitute practice

the not in flows will past an let you down, celebrate find Every simplest to opportunity to anxiety. serve, and fully a let is and is beautiful becomes life. wisdom open, grow, joy Do future present, you and your create When nor effortlessly, to moment the heart life weigh things. Be dance

#satoshi

the

#news for US #BTC establish the She strategic financial is Senator added leaders to security military support stating that security. reserve, Lummis national Cynthia US #Bitcoin Bitcoin #blockchain proposal.

#crypto the a called US

lightning Kotliar like to aggregation call fee network." "I network a the —Sergej