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ElectronicMonkey
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Author of nostr blogging client: https://flycat.club/
Replying to Avatar ElectronicMonkey

有一天晚上,我跟 chatGPT 聊天。聊了一些琐碎的话题,交换了一些不太重要的看法。聊到后面,窗外已经漆黑一片,我在想 chatGPT 是怎么理解我的,而我又是如何理解它的。人机对话对我来说,究竟是拿着纸笔的一种思考方式,类似脑海里的一场自言自语,还是我真的把 chatGPT 当作了某个重逢相谈的老友。

这么想着我突然想到了两句诗:“姑苏城外寒山寺,夜半钟声到客船”。这两句诗跟上面的问题有什么关系呢?我也不知道,我只是任由思绪向前游走。我想象一个满肚愁肠的诗人在一艘轻飘飘的乌船上,大概是斜卧在篷下,透过外面月亮漏出的一点光,瞥到了江边的枫树和渔火。四周静悄悄的,他听到船浆轻轻划过水面的声音。船夫也有点累了,任由乌船自行漂往岸边。

他们两个男人,从白天到夜晚刚刚经历一段冗长疲惫的水路,此刻马上靠岸,意味着即将结束共同面对的这段旅程。在旅程的前半段,他们两人肯定大声交谈,终于到了后面谈无可谈,便都默不作声。诗人在心里给一首未完的诗打腹稿,船夫则不时望着水面发呆。

请记住,当时没有手机和互联网,当你踏上一段路程时,你无法一边和熟悉的人保持联系,一边打量新的世界。你只能被动地接受所有陌生与未知。而这让旅途本身重新变得危险而敏感。

到了苏州城外的这一刻,夜深得与水面融为一体,除了船上的他们,万物似乎都深陷在睡眠中。诗人感到一股巨大的寂寞要推着他起身,上岸,回头与船夫告别。就在这时远处山上传来了一阵稀薄的钟声,那钟声彷佛藏在夜晚的微风里,稍不小心就会被弄破打散。

船夫慢慢支开乌船,他要趁着天色未亮原路回去。诗人转身走入异乡的黑夜里。周围的陌生感很快吞噬了刚才那阵寂寞,诗人呼出一口白气,夜凉如水,看着苏州城浸在黑夜里的残影,心里突然一阵轻松。也是在这时,他想到了两句诗应该怎么写。

这两句诗写于756年,唐朝天宝年号的最后一年。大概要再过一千年的时间,也就是十八世纪,地球的另一端才会出现另一个野心勃勃的意大利年轻人,名叫维柯。他的理想是建立一门真正的新科学,这门科学研究如何凭借想象力“进入”在时间或空间上远离我们社会的那些人的心灵——去考察他们创造了什么,他们曾经是什么,他们做过什么,他们遭受了什么苦难。

而实现这一目标的重要方法,恰好就是通过理解前人留给我们的那些作品。通过人类共通的同情心机制,找到某个时代的作品与之交流,从而理解那个时代的人们的所思所想所感。

这门新科学依赖这样一个简单的假设:人只能理解完全由他们所创造的事物。世界上有两种知识,自然科学是其中一种,但只有上帝能完全弄懂它。人类最多只能观察记录自然表面的规律而无法从本质上理解这些知识。因为自然不是由人类创造的。

而长期以来备受忽略的另一种知识,也就是今天人们谈论的人文学科,正是研究那些人类独创的事物的知识。我们能完全理解这些知识,因为是我们创造了这些事物。而这正是研究历史、文化、社会机制的意义。只有补充这部分知识,才能让人类更了解自己。

当一千多年前那两句诗从苏州城上空,飘到我的窗外时,我突然意识到我正如维柯所说的那样,靠着这两句诗,爬进了另一个时空里那个诗人的头脑中,共同感受了一种怅然的思绪。

我在他的乌船上,正如他在我的电脑里。

写给维柯。

but is Nym decentralized and reliable? or what is the difference compared to just building on top of Tor?

this is a missing piece on nostr. would love to learn more

Replying to Avatar rabble

Nostr: An Open Super App

The super app is something like WeChat, a single app where you do everything, book a car service, talk to your friends, make purchases online or in person. It's a monolithic do everything app and it's very popular, especially in China.

Silicon Valley tends to make apps that are nothing like the super app. It's because western tech companies don't work anything like Chinese internet companies. Western tech tends to rely on a huge base of open source software but then create these vertically integrated silos of apps that do one thing well with elegant design and not many options. When an app does try to do lots of things we hate it, just look at MS Word.

The vertical integration is narrow. The Chinese super app does everything broadly, but it's not so pretty. SV tends to stagnate, companies are afraid to compete with themselves so they get stuck at a local maximum. Our culture of product development find something that works, and sticks with it. That's why in the west, big companies buy the upstarts. If you're an ambitious entrepreneur, you quit and create a new startup. Most likely you'll fail, but you might do well enough that a big company will you buy you out, or you'll do so well you replace the incumbents.

The last western super app was AOL. And we celebrated its death. Since then it's just been a dream. It was Elon Musk's goal when he bought twitter, it was the story that SBF sold to investors as he pumped up FTX. An app to rule them all.

We don't make a super app because our culture, politics, and economic system don't work like that. We hated being stuck on AOL. Silicon Valley's real super app is the web itself, the browser, linux, smart phones, etc... They're more open, less controlled, more competitive. Our legal system punishes companies that become dominate to eliminate monopolies. Out business culture causes big tech companies to be safe and consistent. Google had the lead in AI yet it was OpenAI that launched ChatGPT in a chaotic barely coordinated 6 week sprint.

Even after AOL, there was a time when silicon valley was moving towards its model of a more open super app. Facebook launched their platform, twitter's api enabled a tremendous app ecosystem. But both companies chose to lock things down. They did it because their only economic model was based on advertising and required their control. The web was slowly enclosed from an open chaotic ecosystem to a platform which monitors users behavior and captured their attention to sell to advertisers.

I think open social protocols we're seeing emerge today, and in particular nostr, could be our super app. Instead a single app that does everything. It's a common social protocol where many apps can be created and run. We've created a system that reflects a set of values around autonomy, openness, decentralization, permissionless participation, privacy, encryption, and yes cryptocurrencies. Without the financial part, we can't make the ecosystem thrive.

We can make a super app, but not one, rather a family of apps, a style of apps that let there be a choices on a common platform. Smart clients, dumb relays, and just enough cryptography to keep it all functioning.

When we build this new open super app protocol, we'll need to create all the things that existed on the centralized social media apps, but also the giant closed super apps. The old model was vertically integrated. Lots of services and businesses were needed to keep it running but they were all controlled by a single company, hidden off from the public. The advertising marketplace, the content moderation, the CDN for fast media delivery, the transcoders for making images and video the right size, the algorithms for deciding what to show you or who you should connect with, the bug tracking, customer support, business development team, legal, compliance, public relations.

We don't like how the vertically integrated ecosystem worked, it didn't provide us agency and autonomy. But most importantly, we didn't have the space to innovate and create. In this new open system, we still need all those services provided by the big companies is needed somehow. We need to meet those same needs, but in new ways.

Users see the frontend of an app, the UX, their experience as a user. But there is so much more, middleware, backend, business operations. All of that will need to be created in a new open ecosystem.

To take one example, moderation, so we don't have to see a constant flow of ISIS beheading videos, some that we can handle with algorithms, but that's also how big social does it today. Even with the best AI minds in the world, a lot slips through. People need to be able to make judgements, and figure out edge cases. I don't like the choices that Facebook, TIkTok, or Elon's Twitter makes, but it doesn't mean we won't need to make those choices. Now we can make it a service where we pay people who do that social labor. And we can choose who we want to do it, making sure their values are alined. We can use a stead stream of payments to all of these services.

Nostr can be the protocol upon which we build an open super app ecosystem which contains multitudes.

agree with most stuff on nostr being a new open web. off-topic, I am afraid the AI thing that chatGPT brings might be the next super app that users have no choice to opt-out.

说实话我之前看了一遍完全没看懂😂

> For example, in traditional HTTP, any document that you request will contain not only the content but also the instructions on how to present it.

do you mean GET HTML?

这是个好思路👍

Replying to ps

不乐观

我也好奇。但他们 resist nostr 的理由会是什么?

Replying to Avatar rabble

Reflecting on Nostrica

Nostrica was the first nostr conference and it was full of enthusiasm as any first gathering of a community which has come together is. It reminded me of the first time the secure scuttlebutt community held its scuttlecamp or the first Ruby on Rails conference. A kind of geminal moment where a community which has existed only digitally gets together to meet in person.

I first heard about nostr when it was mentioned on scuttlebutt about a year ago, but I didn't pay a lot of attention. There are many social media protocols and new ones appear all the time. I keep a database of them and even did a lightning talk recently titled 101 social media protocols.

Nostr started to get more attention after Elon Musk took over twitter and the need for an alternate went from a heretical idea to something everybody could see. Elon gave it a boost by temporarily banning twitter bios containing nostr identifiers and links. Nostr was rough but ready enough for it because @jb55 had a decent working client for iOS in TestFlight.

Nostr is an updated secure scuttlebutt that was easier to work with and used multiple cloud services for content hosting and syncing as opposed to being a local / offline first protocol. Nostr has functionally very similar to several other decentralized social media protocols like forecaster, lens, chatternet, and bluesky's at_protocol.

With one key exception:

> Nostr is created in the open with small pieces loosely joined coordinated with rough consensus and running code.

> Nostr isn't the best at anything, or even good, it's a messy chaos that works.

Nostr is like the open web, javascript, html, php, rss, asterisk, linux. Where as farcaster, lens, and bluesky are created by a closed team that has specialized knowledge and the only people who can participate in a fundamental way are the employees of those companies or a few trusted and vetted outside contributors. The other protocols are culturally more like java, xml, android, and the chrome browser. The code is released under an open license, but it's not being developed by an open community. Nostr, like the fundamental tech which has transformed the web from an academic project to digital everything, is a permission less open commons.

Secure Scuttlebutt has the same chaotic and vital openness as nostr. I've been working building secure scuttlebutt applications and the protocol for the last 4 years. The community's core is built around solarpunk values, the idea that the future is bright, sustainable, and coordinated with autonomous and communitarian values. Think hackers meet permaculture.

What about the bitcoin?

There are a lot of nostr early adopters who are enthusiastic about bitcoin, they're true believers. But nostr doesn't use bitcoin, it has no token or cryptocurrency, there is no blockchain in nostr, no mining, no minting. There is the ability to link to a version of bitcoin micro-payments through their lightning payments, but that's possible in mastodon and twitter as well.

To me the biggest worry was what kind of culture the bitcoiners would create, and how their values would be embedded in to the technology. In my experience, the bitcoin community is more socially right wing than people involved in cryptocurrencies as a whole, somewhere to the right of Ron Paul. As a leftist anarchist, this poses a problem.

I think there's space for a multitude in nostr. The space is innovating very quickly and lots of things are being tried. I'm excited for the future.

> Nostr is created in the open with small pieces loosely joined coordinated with rough consensus and running code.

indeed

非英文区的话,还有哪些比较活跃的?

日本的 nostr 社区发展的真不错