Reflecting on Nostrica

Nostrica was the first nostr conference and it was full of enthusiasm as any first gathering of a community which has come together is. It reminded me of the first time the secure scuttlebutt community held its scuttlecamp or the first Ruby on Rails conference. A kind of geminal moment where a community which has existed only digitally gets together to meet in person.

I first heard about nostr when it was mentioned on scuttlebutt about a year ago, but I didn't pay a lot of attention. There are many social media protocols and new ones appear all the time. I keep a database of them and even did a lightning talk recently titled 101 social media protocols.

Nostr started to get more attention after Elon Musk took over twitter and the need for an alternate went from a heretical idea to something everybody could see. Elon gave it a boost by temporarily banning twitter bios containing nostr identifiers and links. Nostr was rough but ready enough for it because @jb55 had a decent working client for iOS in TestFlight.

Nostr is an updated secure scuttlebutt that was easier to work with and used multiple cloud services for content hosting and syncing as opposed to being a local / offline first protocol. Nostr has functionally very similar to several other decentralized social media protocols like forecaster, lens, chatternet, and bluesky's at_protocol.

With one key exception:

> Nostr is created in the open with small pieces loosely joined coordinated with rough consensus and running code.

> Nostr isn't the best at anything, or even good, it's a messy chaos that works.

Nostr is like the open web, javascript, html, php, rss, asterisk, linux. Where as farcaster, lens, and bluesky are created by a closed team that has specialized knowledge and the only people who can participate in a fundamental way are the employees of those companies or a few trusted and vetted outside contributors. The other protocols are culturally more like java, xml, android, and the chrome browser. The code is released under an open license, but it's not being developed by an open community. Nostr, like the fundamental tech which has transformed the web from an academic project to digital everything, is a permission less open commons.

Secure Scuttlebutt has the same chaotic and vital openness as nostr. I've been working building secure scuttlebutt applications and the protocol for the last 4 years. The community's core is built around solarpunk values, the idea that the future is bright, sustainable, and coordinated with autonomous and communitarian values. Think hackers meet permaculture.

What about the bitcoin?

There are a lot of nostr early adopters who are enthusiastic about bitcoin, they're true believers. But nostr doesn't use bitcoin, it has no token or cryptocurrency, there is no blockchain in nostr, no mining, no minting. There is the ability to link to a version of bitcoin micro-payments through their lightning payments, but that's possible in mastodon and twitter as well.

To me the biggest worry was what kind of culture the bitcoiners would create, and how their values would be embedded in to the technology. In my experience, the bitcoin community is more socially right wing than people involved in cryptocurrencies as a whole, somewhere to the right of Ron Paul. As a leftist anarchist, this poses a problem.

I think there's space for a multitude in nostr. The space is innovating very quickly and lots of things are being tried. I'm excited for the future.

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Discussion

If you had to recommend one or two scuttlebutt experiences for me to try and compare to what we have here, what would they be?

I’ve tried Planetary on iOS. Pretty good experience.

I’m quite a fan of the scuttlebutt app I helped build, https://planetary.social/

But we’ve stopped working on that to focus on nos.social and nostr.

I really like the customize settings page… I know people don’t like tutorials but page explainers are very well done.

is there a second client I should try to see how going from client to client works?

https://manyver.se/ is the other major mobile client. If you run them both on the same device or network, they’ll find each other and be able to sync.

ok starting to wrap my head around it and why there are multiple rabble accounts

Yes, and that was one of the reasons I moved to Nostr. ;-D

relays and not using append only logs seem to offer distinct advantages for nostr over scuttlebutt

There is no left and right, there is only the state and you.

Bitcoin is not right or left.

It’s anarchic and voluntary.

People who pursue freedom and are draw it.

Ppl can even be a commie bitcoiner, they just can’t force other Bitcoiners to be commies :)

I don’t believe any **decentralized** social/comms protocol was ever going to be possible without bitcoin.

Because without freedom money you can’t fund anything decentraly and you end up with companies taking over the protocol and it’s design decisions.

💯

FACTS 🙏🙌❤️👆

I dream of the day all BLOCK (square) POS include the option to transact in bitcoin lightning 🙏 especially in Tokyo, Japan ❤️

Eventually I promise

You have some help / back up here, hope to help in any possible way 🙏 🙇

Facts 🤙🏻

“Bitcoin is anarchic and voluntary”

🧡💜

I don’t believe in forcing anybody to agree with my politics either. Autonomy and voluntary association without coercion is something I feel we agree about.

I think we could have a decentralized comms protocol that worked without bitcoin or something like it, but having it helps. There is a long history of local and autonomous currencies prior to bitcoin, but the tech does make it easier.

Bitcoin is the internet’s native currency.

Yes, but I avoided it for a LONG time because I heard people who pushed for bitcoin also push for a bunch of stuff like homophobia.

Don’t trust. Verify.

Practice is the sole criterion for testing truth

or maybe finding truth

some people that push for bitcoin likely do push homophobia

i dont necessarily see an issue with either

'Autonomy and voluntary association without coercion'

sounds great but the law is do as thy will

and power will

You should go build that

decentralized comms protocol

that works without bitcoin

or something like it

Let us know how it goes, yeah?

In American politics the right is freedom (anarchy) and the left is communism or shades that lead to it. Few

🟠 > 🔴 + 🔵

Great formula to live by

#[2]​ didn’t write Bitcoin is right-ish, he wrote about „the“ community. I have been long enough on twitter to agree with him partially. Every relevant socioeconomic idea is taken up by a wide range of groups. Bitcoin also allows right-wing groups to participate. That's a fact. Likewise, a lifestyle dogma had developed on Twitter that took a lot of Bitcoiners in a right-ish direction. That, too, is a fact. It would be unwise to ignore it. What is social consensus here on Nostr, appreciation, love, equanimity without hurtful vulgarity, a cultivated eccentricity without excluding others - that is something valuable. But it also has to be worked out every day. And maybe people realised that it’s more fun to 🫂 than to spread hate. I hope that this climate of appreciation and also openness will remain here. 🤙🏽

"appreciation, love, equanimity without hurtful vulgarity, a cultivated eccentricity"

subjective and feels like fluff filler

nostr btw really needs a quote nip, especially to concisely pull a section from another note

Hi, my experience may not be yours, but that's fine with me. Hug? 🫂

nostr is open to anything, sensitivity over words is sad

🫂🫂

with this amount of hugs we'll be having sex any minute

bitcoin is not and cant be communist

You not enthusiastic about commie bitcoin?*

?id=28785405&width=1245&height=700&quality=85&coordinates=0%2C0%2C0%2C0

* why did someone make a communist Bitcoin image with #[4]​ and Elon?

thanks for the quick reply, i really like your post btw

communism is centralised authoritarianism, and about as far apart from the individual sovereignty and capitalist principals of bitcoin as you could be

In a truly free system, if ppl want to setup a compound and starve together they are free to do so.

communism is not freedom, but i get the point

I sincerely hope we have a commie commune somewhere on the bitcoin standard. Our children will need a reminder. Keep the dodo bird around so people can learn the lessons of the past.

Human nature will keep some examples of famine around.

Be a good comrade and put your bitcoin into this FediMint, you can trust your local party elected guardians

multi sig.....is a wee bit, teeny tiny bit communist.... isn't it?

good point still depends who owns the keys

Wrong. Bittorrent. Its so good the anti-piracy goons have made zero progress in over two decades in topping it being used prolifically by the public, for free, everywhere. Voluntary non-monetized decentralized networks work. Bitcoin is not required. And #[4] even mentioned recently about how his bitcoin plugin for bittorent was a non-starter because people just didn't need or want it.

*stopping

I have a problem with labels such as “right” or “left”. Depending on the issue at hand, I may fall into the left, right or centre. The appeal of btc and nostr is that no one cares. We all want the same thing. The unfiltered, honest, transfer of ideas and value. You can’t have one without the other.

> Nostr is created in the open with small pieces loosely joined coordinated with rough consensus and running code.

indeed

Damus is not allowing me to repost 😭

#[2]

Which Damus version are you running?

1.4.0

I had to TestFlight Damus v1.4.1 on my iPhone to get repost to work

Oh, the 1.4.1 is not possible here yet

Personally I know more anarchist bitcoiners than right wingers. Two wings same bird anyway

* Now I’m gonna make some people angry *

The only anarchism is leftist. (I know you know that Rabble)

Some people misunderstand left with the existence of state, and state power.

We are the libertarians, those capitalists boys needs to find them another name.

I don't see the difference between libertarian and anarchists personally, just sort of want maximum freedom and be left alone? I don't see the left and right thing

An anarchist is a libertarian maximalist.

#Nostr is open, free, and inclusive. There is no political party here. If you want, you can build your own community client and relay. People who come here are full of pursuit of free thinking. Although it is not particularly friendly to other cryptocurrencies now, it needs to be more inclusive. But there's already a good free, open soil here.

Yep, that’s what I was trying to say, that I was afraid it wouldn’t be open to more diverse political perspectives and world views.

It's not perfect, but #Nostr is one of the most inclusive places I've ever seen. I'm sure you feel it, too. Inclusion doesn't mean I'm going to advocate and respond to every point of view we don't like. It means we can talk about it, we can ignore it, but each group can find its own kind without algorithms to fuel hatred and antagonism between groups. This is #Nostr freedom.

"You don't need to know who I am, but I know who is my kind ." - Moss

There are lots of bitcoiners who vocally hold right wing political views. I also know lots of anarchists and other anti-authoritarian leftists who are excited about bitcoin and crypto currencies as well.

My worry was that there would only be space for people share other right wing political views. I didn’t see that at Nostrica and it’s part of why I’m comfortable with the decision to spend my time and energy in this space and protocol.

Yes, there are no political parties here, just a group of people who are highly aware of personal wealth and freedom of thought.

“Bitcoin lets you own your wealth, Nostr lets you own your mind. ”

Bitcoin+ Nostr =freedom.

Bitcoin is an understanding of sound money in a modern world.

Left and right aren’t really a part of the equation — except the higher correlation of people on the left who fundamentally don’t understand money.

As for anarchists, I don’t even see the point of mentioning left and right.

Bitcoin is for everyone.

What does it mean to be a leftist anarchist?

Oh we could talk forever about what it means… but since I want to get back to building things I’m going to be lazy and give you a Wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_anarchism

#[4]​ explain what is a leftist anarchist

For you and those in #[2]​ comment section:

Left anarchism Is the only anarchism, actually.

At the french revolution they basically divided themself at the parliament in the right: those from royalty and nobles that wanted to keep their power over all others. And the left: those who wanted freedom.

After a while, everyone started being able to make their own money. But another “royalty” was born, and those bosses from bourgeoise was over exploiting workers just like the kings did. So workers rebelled again. Socialism was born. But Bakunin told Marx to be careful and alerted to the possibilite that really happened in the Next century, Stalin and “the party” became again the new kind of royal family. So anarchism is the kind of socialism that tries to avoid creating another small groups that holds power above all others.

It’s amazing how fast engagement happens on nostr.

I made this post and it’s gotten just a wave of feedback and discussion right away. Some folks sharing, others commenting, lots of discussion, a few zaps. Honestly it reminds me of the way twitter can be addictive. Scuttlebutt and Mastodon, or even twitter today, don’t feel like that.

#[0]

I’ve said it hear before and I’ll repeat it, Nostr will be bigger than Bitcoin.

I think so too. And this is good for Bitcoin 💜🧡

⚡️

You brought the chaos hahaha congratulations 😂

This is just the beginning, building the future together

Good thing is Bitcoin is for anyone. Especially left wing anarchists

I appreciate hearing your perspective as both someone with a lot of knowledge and experience in the domain as well as someone with different ideological/political leanings than most in the Bitcoin community.

I'm glad that you are able to see past that and see the potential of nostr for a larger swath of humanity. I hope there is a also a solarpunk future on nostr. 🫂

Separate church and state isn’t a partisan issue. Money and state shouldn’t either.

I've been thinking on this post for a few hours and this is how I will describe my feeling on nostr, I have been on various social media since their inception when I was in high school, mostly just connecting with friends and such.

I was on nostr for about 2 hours when I realized these were my people, and it was largely because we all share this beautiful community in a way that largely doesn't care about politics so long as your politics largely favor freedom.

I generally call myself an AnCap, but as I continue to move through my life I think it's more like I'm a leftist anarchist in my local/family life and an AnCap in global theoretical ideas. I think when I look at bitcoiners most of us are like this, stacking sats for our families and our futures, buying local food and working to build these beautiful decentralized ideals with our own local and global communities.

We are built resilient. 🫡

是否开源已经不是关键区别了,因为开源已经成为新出现协议的标配。

协议的开发模式才是差别所在。大教堂vs集市

我下注Nostr赢。

“Nostr 就像开放的web、JavaScript、HTML、PHP、RSS、Asterisk 和 Linux 等。而 Farcaster、Lens 和 Bluesky 是由一个封闭团队创建的,这些团队具有专业知识,只有公司员工或少数经过信任和审查的外部贡献者才能以基本方式参与。其他协议在文化上更像是 Java、XML、Android 和 Chrome 浏览器。代码在开放许可下发布,但并非由开放社区开发。Nostr就像将web从学术项目转变为数字化一切的基础技术,是一个无需许可的开放公共领域。”

#[0]

说实话我特别讨厌chromium内核的浏览器,这是我一直坚持使用Firefox的原因,尽管很多dev跟我吐槽Firefox对开发者并不友好,没有像chromium那么好上手

但底层文化上,确实我更喜欢nostr、Firefox、tor之类的东西

Solarpunk is a tribe I need more of in my life ☀️🤘

How can we define the Bitcoin community or Bitcoin culture? Is it comprised ideas of individuals in El Salvador who use Bitcoin as a means to escape monetary discrimination, those in Africa who do the same, or perhaps those who use Twitter or other social media platforms to discuss and engage with Bitcoin? Or does it encompass the broader group of Bitcoin users who do not participate in social media at all?

Bitcoin is for all political preferences.

🫂