Subnostr

BTC's fungibility may have been a non-issue when it was invented, but as time passes by, technology changes, and it is now a de facto infungible asset because of tainted coins and blacklisted addresses. There's literally credit scores for BTC addresses now.

And I get that advancements like CoinJoin, Lightning, etc. exist to bring BTC's privacy up to speed, but it doesn't mean anything when BTC is still subject to the same concerns that it has on-chain.

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Corbin 5mo ago

These issues aren't flaws in Bitcoin's protocol-they're external constraints, like you said in your original post.

Fungibility at the protocol level still holds; one Satoshi is technically equal to another.

The taint or blacklisting is a human layer-governments, exchanges, or analytics firms imposing their rules.

Tools like CoinJoin and Lightning, while not perfect, are part of perpetual advancements on top of bitcoin. Incentives drive governments to try to capture and control, and people are incentivized to innovation to be free.

Bitcoin is revolutionary it is money no one can make more of, and tools can be built on top of it for privacy while bitcoin actively defunds the governments ability to rule arbitrarily by way of a hidden tax through endless debt and money creation, ending their ability to enforce tracking methods or unethical practices against bitcoin.

The tools you mentioned, coinjoin and lightning are still relatively new and there is much to come.

They do give users ways to opt out of that surveillance, and as adoption grows, these tools will become more seamless and advance greatly.

Plus, Bitcoin's decentralized nature means no single entity can enforce these restrictions universally-unlike fiat, where central banks can dictate terms.

That said, concerns about credit scores for addresses are real, repression is real. Chain analysis companies like Chainalysis are building profiles on wallet activity, and some services already use this to flag or block transactions. It's a privacy hit, no doubt.

But nothing in human history has been better at protecting against and defunding fiat money and the rule of law that comes with it.

Bitcoin's open source community is relentless, new privacy solutions keep popping up to counter this, like improved mixing protocols or layer two scaling that obscures transaction details.

Government actions like tracking coins or imposing regulations actually spotlight Bitcoin's value.

When people see moves against private property or sound money, it wakes them up, pushes them to advocate for Bitcoin, even if they're not deep in it themselves.

That growing awareness is huge; it fuels political and social momentum, awareness and education.

And yeah, Bitcoin's hard cap and decentralized setup kneecap governments' ability to print endless fiat to fund wars or prop up markets through subsidies.

It's defunding the very systems trying to enforce things like address blacklisting or coin taint.

These tracking methods are historically common tools of oppression, not new, just repackaged for the digital age.

Bitcoin's base layer fungibility, with one Satoshi always equaling another, stays untouched by that.

Its borderless, immutable, nation-state-resistant nature makes it a unique weapon to dodge centralized overreach.

Concerns about tainted coins and credit scores aren't trivial, but they're not fatal or cause for concern, they are to be expected and they are why bitcoin exists. It wont change in a day and provably, nothing has been as capable as bitcoin

Bitcoin's design lets it evolve through tools like CoinJoin or new privacy tech to keep pushing back.

Bitcoin is not just money but a revolution dismantling centralized control worldwide, ushering in individual human rights and a better, more peaceful world for every person on Earth.

Replying to

tuco

sats may be arguably fungible but LN is a “payment method” on a side chain, or layer 2, that isn’t as reliable as layer 1 and for big amounts is far from efficiency. Although I agree that it is an amazing solution for small amounts

Corbin 5mo ago

Yeah, lightning on nostr is such a good example.

Over time companies could build trust through track record/reputation, kind of like how people trust visa, amex and mastercard. Cashapp uses lightning, and as it gets built out more, it could facilitate higher amounts.

More layer twos will be built of course, maybe some will outdo lightning.

To state the obvious, like Nik Bhatia in layer money talks about money is built on layers. Gold takes too much energy, it's too costly - not possible to move fast hence paper money and wire transfers.

Critical aspects of the base layer being robust security, transparency, immutability, decentralization and proof of work; it's a feature to have privacy and near instant transactions on secondary layers.

And the obvious again for anyone interested, once you open a payment channel and commit funds, it can stay open indefinitely as long as both parties keep it active, no need to settle on the Bitcoin blockchain.

This lets you transact privately off-chain, potentially forever, creating a kind of self-contained, circular economy within the channel.

The base layer only gets involved if you close the channel or someone tries to cheat, triggering the on-chain settlement.

It’s a powerful setup for privacy and efficiency, as long as the channel stays funded and both sides cooperate.

Lightning channels do involve a degree of trust, but it’s minimal and technical rather than interpersonal.

Both parties need to trust that the other won’t try to cheat by broadcasting an old channel state, but this is deterred by the protocol’s penalty mechanisms-like the watchtower feature or timelocks that let honest parties reclaim funds if someone tries to close the channel maliciously.

But yeah, if someone unilaterally closes the channel, it settles on-chain, and that privacy layer shifts.

Trust in Lightning Network channels often ties to reputation and incentives, especially in practical scenarios.

If you're running a channel with a big player like a mastercard or visa equivalent (some entity with a strong track record) they're heavily incentivized to keep the channel open and act ethically to protect their brand and business.

Same goes for smaller, private setups; reputation and the promise of ongoing business creates a strong motive to avoid screwing over a partner by closing a channel maliciously.

Plus, legal recourse, adding another layer of deterrence. Even in off-grid or remote cases, mutual benefit and social trust can keep things stable. It's less about blind trust and more about reputation and track record and or aligned incentives backed by the protocol's safeguards.

Agree, lightning network is awesome

Replying to

Hanshan

The AI doesn't address the question at all.

The point is that cash and gold are not transacted on an open ledger that anybody can audit with a we browser.

Corbin 5mo ago

No the point is cash and gold are fungible and the government tries to make them non fungible.

Bitcoin is the best at repelling this by actively defunding the state with money they cant make more, eliminating arbitrary debt and money creation.

Governments can obviously oppress people and bitcoin is revolutionary because it ends fiat money.

Its transparency is a feature not a bug.

Also, i wrote that, i compiled the information. I said it to ai and it helped me organize it. A lot of it was inspired by breedlove and saylor's series and others.

Replying to

Hanshan

"I'm mad you dont use your time and energy to respond to my low effort LLM posts"

👍

Corbin 5mo ago

I don't give a shit what you do.

I took the time to thoughtfully put that together in response. With the soul intent of progress and truth.

You came back by repeatedly changing the subject and providing no thought or information.

Claim my information was made by an LLM, i don't know how to get an LLM to say what i said. ALL the information i shared was compiled and researched by myself over the years.

If you come at someone with bullshit or something wrong about bitcoin or shitcoins, it risks misunderstanding and confusion. Standing up against inaccurate information is important so i'll keep doing that.

Replying to

Hanshan

I'm old enough that my teachers told me not to use a calculator during math class.

Now people not only use calculators, they are hitting a LLM for every response they write on social media.

I can multiply any two numbers between 0 and ~10,000 in my head.

These guys are going to have a hard time saying ANYTHING online or irl without internet access.

Like calculators, but for critical thinking and information processing. Used in this way, its a tool that robs the user of the ability to absorb information and discern important points.

It will not end well for them.

cc nostr:npub129puxu7lrd2g5a7hnmr57fe9t5ffk62m2gklkkl5xjvt5j6srhuswhhud3

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Corbin 5mo ago

Again, no substance. Not engaging the information. Just changing the subject.

And again your analysis is incorrect.

Using an LLM to organize thoughts is not a flaw, your criticism is a reflection of you, nothing else. Your inability to engage the information and your desire to change the subject.

You're saying you don't like LLMs and you judge people who use them.

Looks like I could make the information more understandable for you by asking the LLM to explain it to a child.

If you know how to read, the information is clear.

Maybe you'll be able to combat the information rather than resorting to changing the subject someday.

I'd be happy to have a conversation about why LLMs are valuable, and people who use them will advance past those who don't, even if you don't like them.

For your childish response, and back to the money, we are all free to think what we want but we are not free from the consequences of those thoughts.

Corbin 5mo ago

#Bitcoin #Nostr

TLDR: Picture AI transforming podcasts, interviews, classrooms, and pro settings into immersive deep dives.

Have a conversation with someone's ideas in real time.

Engage with hosts, guests, teachers, or professionals, explore their research through dynamic digital AI tabs, or show your work in interviews with AI backed portfolios.

With open-source AI, it’s a bias free, truth driven future where ideas grow through engagement, uncovering deeper insights and broader perspectives.

Here's a casual, brief overview, then a more elaborate explanation

What if you could debate a podcast guest's ideas in real time?

Imagine you’re watching a youtube podcast or interview, and the guest drops a link to their personal AI, loaded with all their research, studies, and rock solid info.

You tap in and start exploring, asking questions, diving into details, even debating the AI like it’s the person themselves!

Got a counterpoint? Fire away, and if you have a legitimate challenge to their angle, the AI could ping the guest with real-time feedback, sharpening their stance or calling out biases.

In a flash, your phone’s not just a phone, it’s a portal to engage anyone's ideas or research. A new way to learn dynamically and progress ideas through interaction!

With AI as your wingman, podcasts, documentaries, interviews and talks become immersive journeys.

Pull up a digital tab, packed with all the information a researcher or professional claims important for their idea or stance. Visuals, charts, and verified facts.

You could import an informational AI tab/link into your AI, compare it with information you think is important or anything your AI finds relevant.

Efficient, verifiable, accurate analysis.

This setup would show ideas and knowledge as an ongoing journey, not a final stop.

No more stumbling over words or dodging bias, AI’s got your back, organizing thoughts, fact checking on the fly, and letting anyone dive into the ideas from any angle like a choose your own adventure.

Someone asks a question requiring a detailed response, you could have a tab, or multiple tabs prepared to explain in detail with no hiccups or missteps possible. Access data, resources and references seamlessly.

From classrooms to debates, it’s a bold, truth-driven future where your ideas shine, crystal-clear and unstoppable.

Teachers could use this to let students dig into lessons, ask for clarity, or test ideas, making every class a lively, interactive quest for truth.

In a job interview the applicant could utilize AI.

They might pull up a dynamic portfolio on their phone, packed with real time demos, work samples, and interactive experiments, test scores and analysis all backed by open source AI that’s meticulously organized their skills and ideas.

The employer's AI could analyze the applicants information - presentation and responses on the spot, catching nuances and strengths even a sharp interviewer might miss, stripping away subjective biases or arbitrary snap judgments.

It’s a game changer, pressure’s off the interviewer, and the applicant’s true potential shines through with a clear, data driven assessment of their knowledge and capabilities, revolutionizing how talents spotted.

A more elaborate explanation

The integration of artificial intelligence (AI) into communication, particularly in interviews, presentations, and educational settings, represents a transformative shift in how individuals convey and engage with ideas.

AI’s multimodal capabilities enable the creation of dynamic, personalized, and verifiable content that transcends traditional verbal exchanges.

In interviews, AI can act as an intermediary, organizing thoughts into polished, interactive formats such as immersive digital tabs that combine text, audio, visuals, and data-driven elements like charts or videos.

This approach mitigates communication barriers, including nerves, bias, or incomplete information, by allowing individuals to pre-prepare nuanced responses using AI to anticipate questions, refine arguments, and incorporate verified references.

Such systems, open-source and transparent, enhance credibility by providing real time fact checking and feedback, fostering accountability and reducing reliance on emotional manipulation or propaganda.

In educational contexts, AI facilitates personalized learning by enabling students to explore a teacher’s ideas at their own pace, ask clarifying questions, or engage in dynamic reasoning, while providing instructors with real-time insights into student engagement and understanding.

This interactivity promotes deeper critical thinking and reduces cognitive bias, creating a collaborative environment for knowledge refinement.

Potential platforms, leveraging tools like xAI’s capabilities, could integrate seamless transcription, summarization, and visualization, making information accessible and engaging.

This evolution in communication promises greater efficiency, inclusivity, and intellectual rigor, redefining interpersonal and academic interactions as immersive, truth-driven experiences.

Replying to

Hanshan

Your AI generated slop is evidence of laziness and *lack of critical thinking skills.

It doesn't support critical thinking.

Corbin 5mo ago

You're not addressing the information.

You're providing no information, substantive thought or critical analysis.

Replying to

Hanshan

Utxos of identical value have different histories.

they are non fungible by definition.

Corbin 5mo ago

Bitcoin's fungibility, akin to cash or gold, faces no inherent flaw but reflects external pressures like governmental overreach, not the protocol itself.

In monetary theory, fungibility ensures units are interchangeable, a criterion Bitcoin meets at its core, where one Satoshi equals another.

Its transparent design enables verifiable auditability, reinforcing trust, integrity, and resilience-a feature absent in opaque systems like Monero.

Bitcoin's transparent blockchain ensures auditable integrity, enabling proactive countermeasures against nefarious actions like double-spending or 51% attacks, fostering trust.

Anyone, holders or newcomers can verify transactions or reject invalid blocks, sparking participation like buying Bitcoin or running nodes when threats, like nation-state, corporate, or central bank attacks, become visible, strengthening its self-sustaining security.

Provable unethical actions against Bitcoin raise awareness, inspiring education, adoption, and political advocacy for values like private property and sound money.

This openness turns perceived vulnerabilities into a robust security feature, enabling prompt calls to action that grow resilience.

Ever-growing advancements, tools like CoinJoin, Lightning Network, eCash, and Nostr, enhance practical fungibility by enabling private, uncensorable transactions without sacrificing base layer integrity.

Bitcoin’s open-source, fully transparent nature ensures perpetual advancement, open to all, with unstoppable free markets upholding its integrity.

External interventions, like government restrictions seen with gold bans, cash tracking, or efforts against privacy tools like CoinJoin, do not undermine Bitcoin's intrinsic properties, just as state efforts failed to suppress cryptography.

Its decentralized, unalterable cap and nation-state-resistant design erode centralized control, defunding mechanisms of arbitrary regulation.

This ensures its sound money properties: scarcity, portability, divisibility, fungibility, durability, verifiability, and universal demand sustain unmatched global adoption, outstripping alternatives prone to centralized risks.

Replying to

Hanshan

Bitcoin isn't fungible

Corbin 5mo ago

Bitcoin's fungibility, akin to cash or gold, faces no inherent flaw but reflects external pressures like governmental overreach, not the protocol itself.

In monetary theory, fungibility ensures units are interchangeable, a criterion #Bitcoin meets at its core, where one Satoshi equals another.