key rotation requires an interactive protocol, which is outside of the pubsub model of nostr

there is the potential for some kind of key rotation by sending a return address with each forward message, that only fails if the reply is not seen, this is still better than what we have

i was using "send reply address" in a more advanced form - send return PATH - in the indranet project

indeed, this could be even done here, but it then adds an extra layer of turning relays into ... proxies... and raises the spectre of spammy dummy content being used to jam up the channel, which again comes back to auth - in this case, a passive form that is simpler "accept event based on pubkey" and then you just need anon payments for these relaying accounts

but this is all a lot more complicated than neccesary for the simple task of making most relays respect FUCKING CONFIDENTIALITY

i don't accept the "band-aid" perjorative

if it's not worse than trusting google, then it's fine, shut the fuck up and take my money

You're sorta talking over my head, I'm afraid. I can't figure out the auth thingy. Who authorizes who when? I need a diagram, or something.

free access to relays for pulling only DMs and only ones that have your pubkey on them still needs auth and solves most of the spam problem

I use SimpleX.

this is why i'm ranting about how idiotic it is to call it gossip

giftwraps are just DMs where the sender is hidden, another somewhat vague term to use

yes, the key rotation protocol is a problem, in my work with colby a long way back he was all about MLS key exchange protocol, which is used by... i forget, it's basically a multi-user scheme like signal protocol double ratchet but has a key derivation path that forms a tree with each user at the end of the branches

Wouldn't it have to work the other way around?

I'd want to limit my inbox to a couple of relays (Franny's and the one I own) and people would have to contact me exclusively over those. She runs her own and charges for its use, and I pay for one and limit access over a whitelist/blocklist.

We have busy, spam-free, family-friendly relays, as it were. I bet they'd be good onboarding relays, for English-readers.

For anyone interested in nerding out on note-propagation.

nostr:note1s85sldt7rgh6tv3j7nlke3trw4aas5prnuvmspzkvd2gyudmxqvsjy7mru

because they are too busy getting their egos stroked for solving less important, more glamorous problems

it has been beaten but that horse is not dead

the complacent attitude about this is disgusting, and all the devs who are complacent about auth should be ashamed of themselves for not promoting the easiest solution: auth

clients can then give users the option to refuse to send DMs to non-auth relays and problem solved

or else, if you don't see the sense in that, you are clearly in the employ of the deep state, if you ask me

fan-girls opinions don't matter, she's not an engineer, she doesn't understand what the problem is

are you sure - i know more men who gossip compared to women =) but I am totally rooting for Mike Dilger to change the name to climate change model instead - that will create quite a global ruckus lol. btw have you DIY'ed relays with simple storage, arduino/rasberry pi or some programmable transistors and basic programming ? you might be the only hw electronics person i know here - if you did or know anyone who have done some DIY videos for dummies, can share it ?

the requirement of auth doesn't stop anything, it just makes it possible to restrict access to DMs that must have matching pubkeys in them

authing is basically free, all clients already sign events, that's all auth is

all it means is you have to join the hype train to drive all the clients to implement auth

of course there will have to be rate limiting on access to DMs especially when the same ones are asked for more than a few times, this is a little extra logic but a small price to pay for normalising both protecting confidentiality of DMs and the concept of relays as a service instead of a spam target to grind to the ground and shut down when it publishes things you don't like

I think we agree on most of this stuff. Most of this note is just restating what I said in my blog post.

Maybe my idea of the ideal network topology is wrong, but it's the entire reason I started on this project over two years ago, so I'm going to keep pursuing it. Blastr is annoying because it makes that harder, but if the vision can't be accomplished without chaotic actors it doesn't work anyway.

Lots of client devs run relays. I run a few for my coracle.tools pilot customers. But that's not needed to have insight into why many relays have shut down — they're just not needed, and that's not (entirely) blastr's fault. People wanted to be a part of nostr, so they "ran a node". But running a node doesn't matter if you don't use it properly.

> Also Blastr does NOT actively crawl the network and scrap then blast notes.

Ok, I'm curious if you have visibility into how notes get spread across the network then? I know lots of clients re-broadcast, but my sense is that a whole lot gets propagated pretty quickly. I thought I had read somewhere that blastr was doing more than just relaying notes.

Gossip connects, but it isn't following anyone. I'm using the latest release, not compiling my own (this time).

Can someone tell the nostr CEO to provide proper notice in future when a #zapathon is happening? And for us almost-boomers, WTF is a zapathon? Everyone is talking about it but nobody actually says what it is.

I go to NYC several times per year for one reason or another. For work, for friends, etc.

Part of me likes it, but part of me gets fucking frustrated multiple times per day every time I am here. (Sorry, this is a Nostr Lyn post).

There are plenty of neat things in NYC that I can’t do at the same scale/quality elsewhere in the world due to the network effects around the city (broadway shows, financial district, etc), and yet after a day or two all I want to do is leave. It feels claustrophobic on multiple fronts.

People all have different vibes but for me, major cities are fun to visit but smaller secondary cities or suburbs around cities are so much smoother to live in. I can’t imagine living all the time in a major city.

The same applies to Cairo, to which I have been in far more total days than NYC. I like Cairo’s satellite cities but not Cairo itself other than going briefly.

Every time I am in a major city I am immediately reminded of the luxury of space, nature, quiet, parking spaces, and chillness of not being in a city. Everything I take for granted normally is now a luxury to fight for in a city.

Even politics are largely correlated to urbanization. If you live in rural or suburban areas, you likely drive around in your own car, you might have some land, etc. Your interaction with the local government exists in a moderate sense. The potential weakness is that you are more likely to always be around those who are similar to you, which minimizes your worldliness.

In contrast to all that, in major cities, everything is so tightly packed, and people rely on public transportation, and even a momentary lapse of government services (eg trash collection) becomes an acute catastrophe. But on the beneficial side, people are around those who are different than them more often, which breeds worldliness.

That’s why I tend to like the zone between rural and major cities. I like secondary cities or suburbs of major cities, because I get a bit of both worlds. The density and interconnectedness of major cities briefly, and the space and self-autonomy outside of them most of the time.

And yet I was born and raised in that sort of inbetween state, and so maybe it is just my upbringing.

What about you? Can anyone sell me the idea of NYC or other major cities that I am missing, especially in the remote work era? I see glimpses of how it could be attractive if you are used to it and know every detail of your neighborhood, but it really does feel limiting to me.

I like it this way. Looks cleaner and completely removing the like button from my UI broke me of a really bad habit of liking nearly every post and reply I saw. It was awkward at first but made me start thinking more about how I was engaging and why I wanted to engage with certain posts vs others.