One command to create PWA. This is insane 🤯

I thought about IPFS also. But IPFS has a ton of problems and isn't very robust. There's massive maintenance overhead attempting to implement something with IPFS. Bittorrent is very, very robust. It's only real downsides are that swarms connect p2p and so share IP addresses with each other, and that it's mostly labelled as a piracy tool. But for multimedia delivery it can't be beat.

So, right now, nostr can only be used for the feed fetching/notification part. Content delivery is all done over http, so multimedia content is not censorship resistant, only letting people know where to find it is.

What I'm working on is a piece of software that basically uses bittorrent to deliver the multimedia content and nostr to deliver the message that the content is available. The infrastructure is already there for that, and paid seedboxes already exist, most bit torrent clients are already able to handle remote auth so paying for hosting is already a breeze. Censorship is nonexistent on the bittorrent network, monetization is solved with nostr. I hope to get this out the door Soon™, and am more than halfway done, but real life happens and I've got responsibilities I can't shirk.

I think with this combination, there won't be a bandwidth boddleneck for content.

If someone wants to ensure that their content is always made available, yes they'll need to self host or pay someone for that. That includes seeding and relays. It's probably a good idea to run a relay anyway, and for anonymity, to leave it open to others to use. But you should *always* publish to more than one relay, to ensure that your content is censorship resistant.

So, right now, nostr can only be used for the feed fetching/notification part. Content delivery is all done over http, so multimedia content is not censorship resistant, only letting people know where to find it is.

What I'm working on is a piece of software that basically uses bittorrent to deliver the multimedia content and nostr to deliver the message that the content is available. The infrastructure is already there for that, and paid seedboxes already exist, most bit torrent clients are already able to handle remote auth so paying for hosting is already a breeze. Censorship is nonexistent on the bittorrent network, monetization is solved with nostr. I hope to get this out the door Soon™, and am more than halfway done, but real life happens and I've got responsibilities I can't shirk.

I think with this combination, there won't be a bandwidth boddleneck for content.

If someone wants to ensure that their content is always made available, yes they'll need to self host or pay someone for that. That includes seeding and relays. It's probably a good idea to run a relay anyway, and for anonymity, to leave it open to others to use. But you should *always* publish to more than one relay, to ensure that your content is censorship resistant.

Absolutely.. that's the reason I am such a big fan .. 🙏 for leading the community..

And hats off to rss community - for doing it through sheer will and perseverance .. #nostr is an opportunity to leverage the superior technology ..

.. the most centralized industry is "money" .. literally the nation states with huge armies ..... with #bitcoin, #plebs have a chance to crack open the big banks - at least a hope ..... I imagine similar technology leverage for podcasting , news publications , music , streaming , sports , retail ...

Spot on ..

The revised saying is .. come for the (easy) #zaps and stay for the revolution 😀

Most creatives are naturally attracted to #nostr because of ease of zaps .. not only from end consumers but also to enable collaboration .. for example if I want to start a publucation today , I should be able to find producers, editors, writers and host of other roles here on #nostr and be able to zap them for their work (or set up splits on the final product ) .. aka #creative-economy

I think there is huge innovation currently in progress ( with for example #Cashu ) to enable cash like features in a fashion that LSPs ( or #Mints in this case) wouldn't know the identity of zapper .. and it will be frictionless .. e.g. I won't be required to hop on to another browser ( or wallet) window to stream my #sats .. net net .. Zaps in the killer feature of #nostr ..and it is going to get attention of the very best devs .. I am very hopeful !

As far as the censorship resistance is concerned ... It is the foundation of underlying protocol that #nostr (and #bitcoin) are built on .. it may not be an immediate apparant attraction to the users ( or creators ) ..but in the longer run , this is what wins the battle against INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX .. time and again , we have seen if something could be centralized , it will be .. protocol(s) alone can't fight the battle but they can sure give the creativity better ammunition..

Absolutely - features are different .. in fact every rss client may offer different features just as Amethyst offers different features v/s Damus ! ..that said , I was talking more about the underlying philosophy - e.g. being able to get the content without having to subscribe (no KYC) . A website or podcast doesn't need to know who am I and where I am ! kinda ..

Now here is the fundamental difference ...

rss works on top of http(s) ..which means despite good intent (for anonymity of the subscriber), the construct is superficial .. means a hacker can find what I am listening to and where .. of course there are ways to protect but most users wont employ those tools .. http essentially drives centralization - as happened with the internet overall ... rss is kinda a sliver of goodness residing with in the pool of darkness :-) who is better than you to know how strong Apple and Spotify are despite all the good intent (of rss community) ...

nostr (and bitcoin) is built on gossip protocol .. it obviates the need of central servers .. in that , relays are NOT servers . Server serves me based on my credentials stored with them, on the other hand , I can simply go to a relay and pick up what is mine - kinda like the difference between a sit down restaurant ( server) and a Chipotle ( self service) . Crude analogy but the point is in the "http world" a waiter (third party) needs to know what I ordered and where I am sitting (location) .. in "nostr land" all that information grab by middle men is removed by design .. In addition , what relays store is not the content .. it is simply the rss style fields .. a specific set of fields for an event type ...

Thus nostr is simply a better core tech ... that said .. a podcast wouldn't be called a podcast if it didn't support billions of existing user .. we may call it a nostr-cast but that is a totally different product ..albeit a better one but without any user :-) .. just the way I would not call it an EMAIL unless it supports all the smtp and pop based email clients ..including mut :-)

So the path is to build a better solution on #nostr and make sure it is backward compatible ... not only for podcast , but for email too .. and many more great tools crippled by http ,,and eventually the entire internet ..

Disclaimer : My technology interpretations may be wrong for lack of research on my part ! This thread has ton of great devs to correct me !

I love RSS and Atom. I'm an avid user for everything, I will not sign up for an account for subscription to things, period, if there's not a feed to subscribe on my side I don't subscribe. It has enabled a permissionless model of publication and subscription to flourish on the internet. What I said above isn't to rip on it, I love it.

(Thanks for the work you've done to further that flourishing.)

But, the published works live at individual servers. It's identity is the URL at which it can be found. This means that it cannot be censorship resistant. A person publishing their work can choose to publish it in multiple places, but someone subscribing to one might not know how to find the other.

This is why I say nostr can do everything RSS can do but in a censorship resistant way. The content is simply signed, where a user pulls it from is of no consequence. A publisher can put it at several relays to be pulled from, the user hardly notices if it gets taken down from any of them. If someone wants to be able to publish anonymously, and in a way they can't be censored, nostr is a dream come true.

RSS is still cool, useful, and you're right about all the infrastructure. But this censorship resistance, you can't beat it. I exclusively publish what I want to publish with Nostr, the identity of this voice is the key that signed this message. I won't host my writings on a blog, because it requires identifying myself to a data center, and having to watch what I say to avoid my site being taken down or blocked or something else.

You should know, I'm working (very slowly) on a piece of software that enables publishers to share multimedia content in a censorship resistant way. Once I have it working and published, which is hopefully soon if real life can get out of my way, your average person will be able to publish audio and video with ease in a way nobody can stop, and even offload hosting to a trusted provider at their leisure also very easily. It leverages existing protocols and does not require any new infrastructure. Right now, nostr publishers have to host media at a URL and it is not censorship resistant. This is a weakness, I hope my solution is adequate for people.

That's correct. I said this below and you boosted it. And before I asked you to take this pic I said I was going to use it to instigate more zaps! Remember? 🔥🔥🔥

Totally agree with the spirit.. don't burn what is not broken .. rss did exactly what nostr is trying to do ..though not as good a technology solution as nostr is ..but how does that matter .. I mean , we are not going to stop using email just because we have nostr ..

Reinventing email and rss on nostr is a noble idea .. but it is not the same basket as Facebook , Instagram or X ..

This is true.

I just realized there is an enormous database of people talking about RSS on the internet, teaching others how to use RSS, learning how to use RSS, talking about the advantages of RSS, conducting user research on RSS first impressions.

All of this applies almost unedited to Nostr.

Yeah this sounds like something the Montgomery City Lines would have been saying in 1956. After all, when has a boycott ever brought attention to an issue? When has it ever been a useful tool for a small, marginalized minority who is otherwise ignored or laughed off to make a statement?

They can boycott decentralized music on their own player, but a music show can't return the favor? Please.

What use is it to talk openly to deaf ears? We've been openly discussing this for over three years and we only get tut tut patronizing reactions. But we will carry on regardless, as per your advice.

Hey nostr:nprofile1qqsgs0l2fsr3lkjyqmftv6lzrjc7mt6950s9spgdvgq7euwnt94mcwgprpmhxue69uhhqun9d45h2mfwwpexjmtpdshxuet5qy08wue69uhhw6tvd3jk6tnrw4e8y7trv9ekstnwv46r5dpcxsuqz9nhwden5te0v96xcctn9ehx7um5wghxcctwvspktsq2, are you getting kickbacks from nostr:nprofile1qqszy58kj62v9fpe98nhuh0q76np4e0r0g0wd44rhth3wphdnyqjfzcpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduq3wamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwwashvmrpddjjucm0d5q3samnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwwdhx7un59eek7cmfv9kqurnrls?

Not your keys, not your coins

Not your feed, not your terms

WE are the counselors they can heed or ignore. The crux of the issue here is Wavlake claiming to be decentralized when they are in fact centralized.

nostr:nprofile1qqsr5qnsn6medetj3vexljqqvy99gfdrgsp7hs9f52kdvrryz6gwkrspz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsskqexd nostr:nprofile1qqszxgvrzkpasudhvdjx3anl77qxse5wd6eunndmyv9x63uwnpn09mgpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcpzfmhxue69uhkummnw3e82efwvdhk6tcgt4a3x nostr:nprofile1qqs2u0tgq980ehcze54e03hhx9xqq52rpx80fv30chtupv8554zzlvspzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgqgjwaehxw309ac82unsd3jhqct89ejhxqgkwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3ezucnpdejqrchmcw

Are you using ALBY hub or alby custodial? Custodial is being wound up so, if custodial, youll want to migrate out of there. I use ALBY hub and it's fuckin fantastic

I think people misunderstand some of the issues. I don’t care if someone wants to pay for or charge for hosting. Now I’d argue if you are, you’re not v4v, you’re charging for a service, but I don’t care if you want to charge for your service. I pay for services all the time.

My main beef with Wavlake (and for the record I think what WL does is good for a lot of people) is they are an exclusive platform. If your music isn’t hosted by Wavlake, you can’t play it on Wavlake. I mean they can do whatever they want, but I wouldn’t call them an open platform.

My main beef with musicians is hosting your own music is so easy. Like it’s as easy as importing a CD and cataloging in iTunes. If you want to use a host or Wavlake because you understand the process and still want some else to handle a server going down, I get it. But I grew up with punk rockers with a DIY spirit, and hosting your songs is easier than screen printing a shirt or ripping a CD. I don’t want musicians thinking Wavlake or any other platform is doing a bunch of heavy lifting that is too complicated for the musician to figure out. I want them to be able to make informed choices. And if they host out themselves, they can do it for a little more than $1 a month. If they’re already hosting a website for their band, they can add their music and a feed for no additional cost.

If they make $100 a month, they have to pay $10 for the service. If it’s $1000 they pay $100. Or they can host it themselves and pay $1 or no additional cost. I just want the musicians to know there’s alternatives and their choices aren’t limited to Spotify or Wavlake, and Wavlake isn’t providing anything they couldn’t provide for themselves.

I’m aligned with most of what’s being said by you and nostr:npub19ha7tju4teqp3dmwv4p28wrcy9zd6h6hxkg5mwvjrlfycweazpkse2q0fa but it seems very ideological for a very niche thing. Is your electricity coming from a decentralized network? Do you pay a company for water? I would want every aspect of my life to be decentralized before I hate on a company for taking 10% for providing a service and having terms. All love for your values, I just don’t want to hate on a thing that’s actually apart of helping artists get paid.

Spotify = Artists don’t get paid.

Wavlake = Artists need to trust to get 90% of listener payment and then also have the freedom to move to a new host. It’s a completely different situation.

We didn’t get spun up cuz there isn’t an algo here.