Avatar
Expatriotic
89ccea93718c9cfd21fc56f3037f6892b30467030ba7f1e085651f1bdf4e00b7
XMR=🔗 Help▶️UGMF podcast 🔑▶️CF39 A7C1 D2E1 C8EC Blog▶️https://expatriotic.me Novice▶️Proxmox self-hosting Mining▶️https://wilsonmining.io Paynym▶️https://paynym.rs/+expatriotic

I've been on nostr for about a week.

In that time I've observed an argument between two camps.

LN vs Monero.

I've observed some issues with this argument that will result in it never being resolved. For LN advocates, take note.

Follow me ⤵️

1. LN advocates saying "find my transaction". This is problematic because this is something a nation state or WoS COULD do... But not me. So stop asking. We get that LN is a network. Also what about receiver privacy? Which is distinct from senders. Is everyone (and every LN flavor) using trampoline, MPP, blinded routes, taproot etc.? See argument number 3.

2. LN advocates talking about Bitcoin being a better store of value than monero. Sure. Okay. But I'm not convinced this is compelling. First of all, most people on nostr actually use bitcoin as a SoV already, so it's a moot point. Plus, the LN vs monero argument is about payments anyway. Eg the BEST way to make LN is custodially anyway, and most people say, "don't worry, I only have a small amount with custodians, for use as a proxy for receiving or to spend more easily." Okay, well many people use monero similarly, only holding enough for some payments for the next month or so. But at least with monero one has the benefit of not relying on a custodian.a

3. It's actually impossible to argue with someone about LN because of how many ways it can be run. Fully custodially or super hardcore mode. And each one has problems. But this makes it effectively impossible to argue against because the goal posts can just keep shifting. I call this the infinite edge case problem.

4. LN advocates need to think about why DNMs have no desire to receive LN payments. If LN gets good enough from a UX and DEFAULT privacy perspective, it might see more adoption by privacy advocates.

As if a DNM wants to manage the help tickets that would flood in from the barrage of people complaining about failed payments.

5. Anecdotally, I remember during the high fee environment I got really into the idea of only using LN.

So I set up Blixt and got tons of inbound liquidity (which cost me over 200,000 sats), only to have constant issues with RoboSats and payment failures. It's NOT a panacea when one tries to do it self sovereignly.

And IF ASINQ or WoS or LNbig are always one hop away we need to really ask ourselves if we have the privacy we think we do. Or are we trusting these super nodes to be benevolent.

Enjoy being poor?

Early bitcoiners used Bitcoin for ideological reasons. Not to get rich. You're pathetic.

Conversely "shitcoiners" don't like Bitcoin because they feel there are other horses to hitch their wagons to to get rich. And it's fair to point out to that person that they're gambling and probably going to lose money.

I see monero as more of a resurgence of the original vibes of Bitcoin. And unfortunately those that use it are more ideologically bitcoiners than the ETF, KYC, Michael Saylor crowd.

Monero losing value to Bitcoin is a red herring.

If you're a cypher punk, then you're not worried about an increase in value, but an increase in utility.

However, I see your point as losing money was mentioned. To that, I would just say, don't hold all your money in monero.

Unfortunately LN is really hard to attack because there are so many edge cases. Which version do I attack without making a straw man?

The custodial WoS? The difficulties of running a node? The failed payments? The FC in high fee environment?

No matter what one argues, you or Darth or some other dev who bleeds code will argue that aCtUAlly LN is really easy and suuperr private.

But I reject that. I would say it CAN be private. But it's not a default state. LN is a network, and just like governments running Tor exit nodes, an attack on LN could be hidden. What IF a country was snooping the data or observing it?

I'm not saying that's happening, but can a user who ONLY wants privacy but doesn't understand LN guarantee to themselves that they have 100% privacy all the time?

#monero fixes this.

No more deciding whether to run a LN node at a loss or succumb to just using custodial solutions.

Context. I use coinos, embedded Zeus node, monero and onchain bitcoins. Just all for different things.

For online payments or dark net shit, monero is the winner right now by a long shot. #statistics

nostr:nevent1qqst49xm5m7lhv3yzv95pj5ekahm79cdxyjq4gycl2j07kegm9p4nncpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgtczyq0qv7lmtzpq2akl8khhevz363q3hq9qhrap9lp98ng2ksw0rgsxjqcyqqqqqqgg4nrmd