TL; DR;
Businesses please be altruistic and even when you are so genius that you find a way to get profit ā focus on helping your competitors to throw you out for the greater good, because capitalism is evil nostr:note1248t3z3tvdsu26v9x9llmpcyf6qwe06fjy2k009y54ggfnnzhjfszpylj9
In my definition you have a different assumption on the first item - I donāt believe in the foreseeable future there will be a mesh of foss mobile devices that will be used as a social network in todays terms i.e hundreds of millions of users. I could believe this could be true for tens of thousands though. In this case nostr will be completely different product compared to how I see it now and how others see it now.
If you believe this network to onboard hundreds of millions of users, I would be cery gld to appear wrong
There are lots of unsolved problems but there is thr biggest fundamental issue I personally canāt find any solution to and the community simply ignores it. Consider pre requisits
1. You consider nostr to become a social network in modern definition of the term i.e allowing hundreds of millions of ppl around the globe to communicate and discover
2. You do not expect every 3rd nostr user to selfhost their relay on a $5/mo and this to somehow magically allow previous thesis
3. You do not expect 100% of the users to pay $10/mo for the less features any existing āfreeā social network provides
With this in mind, the fundamental problem is the following:
The only way to provide customers with okish services requires you to consolidate client and server and at this point you become web2.0 company with incentives to lock your users inside of your ecosystem.
If you believe in āfree marketā you have to understand web2.0 companies tried to break this circle for 30 years without luck. So the problem nostr faces right now is much challenging than implementing enterprise relay or even figuring out this hopium outbox model. But its easier to ignore hard challenges
Whats the difference between in-app relay and p2p?
Hey, thanks for that! But Iām not interested right now. Did you try asking here https://t.me/nostr_protocol ? There may be some nostr devs who might be interested
I wish those people all the best but tbh I donāt believe they either exist or have some real vision
Even if they are real and have such a strong vision they can only keep it in secretā¦ they canāt find a $10k investment/credit to hire a dev? Sounds unreal, sorry, would love to be wrong here :)
What you describe is very interesting and I personally think this is a move into right direction, because still a lot of ppl here think ādumb servers, smart clients, outbox, alltoclient etcā
However, you describe it as API or some set of events - and at least at first sight I donāt see why this software should be a relay. At most it may have to know how to connect to relays to get data from them
I would really appreciate those people to write at least short and brief articles on how they are going to make money with it, I donāt think this is such a big secret in an open source ecosystem, and it would definitely help spark interest in developers
Ok, lets imagine Iāve setup such a relay. How do you get its address? Why would you add it to your client? If no one sends EVENT, your REQ will always be empty, does it increase redundancy in this way?
Iām not sure why are you referring to me as Iām company even though Iāve mentioned that I was involved in development. I never had any plans to earn money by operating a relay. I was trying to create a relay that others would operate and earn money on it (because this is the only sustainable way to operate a real relay long term IMO). But Iāve found zero demand for that.
So I was right that you donāt think the lack of incentives for operators is a real problem and you are also sure that free market will decide, so nothing changed in a year looks like, sigh
I really hope to be wrong and to see some day that someone decided to create an enterprise grade relay without thinking about any incentives for operators and it actually played well and theyāve got more than they could dream about :)
But right now I can only see declining number of relays and all of the āpaidā relays posting post mortems and deciding to shutdown unfortunately
Why would one put time into developing a paid relay if not only no one is going to pay for it but even theoretical incentives to operate a relay do not exist?
Thats what I am (was) talking about - first we, as a community, have to think about the incentives and try to solve them before thinking about enterprise relays, or super mega efficient 5MB relays
But almost no one in the community does not see the lack of incentives as a problem. Judging by your answer, you too
Unlikely to be actively developed but you may be interested https://github.com/viktorvsk/saltivka
How does a tiny relay hosted on a server no one knows about helps nostr? Is this outbox model here with us in this room?
Iāve started working on a relay long time ago and didnāt see anyone willing to work on relays operators incentives.
There was completely no sense to run a relay except for altruism. And everyone was saying its not a problem because nostr has already won because its a protocol and if at some point there is not enough relays you can just spin your own up.
Did anything change recently?
You donāt need non-btc content to get non-btc people on a social network. Social networks have 1% of creators, 10% of commentators and 89% of consumers.
Incentivize creators to join nostr and get non-btc content and non-btc people. Unfortunately, nostr has nothing to offer to creators and general point of the core of nostr community is āwe donāt need it, nostr already won because its a protocolā
Interesting, will take a look, thanks
We all need to be very aware that what nostr:npub1sn0wdenkukak0d9dfczzeacvhkrgz92ak56egt7vdgzn8pv2wfqqhrjdv9 is describing here is not some distant dystopian future. It's our dystopian reality.
In May, Elliptic, together with researchers from MIT and IBM, developed a dataset to identify "the shape of money laundering" on the blockchain.
This dataset attempts to predict money laundering activity that has "not yet been labeled" by distinguishing between what the dataset defines as "anomalous signatures" and Bitcoin transfers between "licit services".
Falling out of these clusters deemed normal by intelligence financed corporations already leaves you penalized. Avoid KYC services? Flagged. Can't tie your transactions to a bank account? Flagged. Frequent user of coinjoins? Flagged.
You are already being debanked because a computer program has decided that you are a money launderer ā not because you did something illegal, but because your transactions are deemed abnormal ā and you have no legal recourse as suspicious activity reports swear financial institutions to absolute secrecy.
It's the full on criminalization of privacy in finance. The future is here, and it's Orwellian.
Would be great if snowden would first stop supporting genocide because he decided to become famous. Everything else from his is noise
Well if we define simple as less complex and complex as something consisting of more elements than simpler than http is more simple because its a subset of nostr isnāt it? At least its part where you can try to enable permissionless