I welcome them all!

We should definitely keep up the conversation. Reach out any time you have a question for an honest Catholic who knows his faith 🤙

This is me 🤣 certain clients are better for longer back-and-forth conversation, others for just browsing, and a third novelty client open just for kicks

As an aside, these are the sorts of conversations I love having. These are real and meaningful.

> never found this ultimately convincing

Neither are they absolutely certain of it, necessarily by their own position 🤣

He's a rare breed, I gotta say 🤣 I hope you say the same of me

Deus vult!

Man! Infant baptism too?! You're not too far away, brother.

"Least incorrect," however technically correct literally, does imply the possibility for error. One Catholic belief is that the Church never errs, though her members may, a promise made by Christ in Caesarea Philipi. (Matt 16 supports this but is not immediately apparent and a bit of additional reasoning is needed to show it is true.)

Those things which must be believed are all the dogmas, those things solemnly declared as infallible in Church councils or in papal "ex cathedra" statements (very rare, BTW). A second tier of church teachings exist on the level of "must not oppose". The lowest level is theological opinion, which people do not bear obligation to believe, and on this level discussion is encouraged. I may be missing some level(s), but that's the gist.

It should be helpful to point out that belief is not what saves, but the grace of God, which the Church knows she does not control but cooperates with God as a conduit. I say this because an infant has no capacity to assent to a dogma, nor any young child for that matter, but if we are to believe that the promise is made to us and to our children (Acts 2:39), some way other than belief must exist to attain salvation.

Salvation goes beyond the immediate scope of the discussion, but it is a worthwhile detour.

All that to say, some things a person must believe if he is able to intellectually assent (capacity and knowledge of the subject), but the will and mercy of God is not limited to a person's ability to believe.

> Acts 2:39: "For the promise is for you, for your children, and for all who are far away, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to him"

I like this tension, or really a harmony, between things as a real place to live. Even energy itself only does work in a gradient (electricity flows only with a voltage differential, things only roll down hill toward lower states of potential energy, high pressure pushes toward lower, etc.)

The virtues are the healthy mean between vices (courage balances recklessness with cowardice, and liberality balances frivolity and avarice). So too with the Faith do we find a tension or harmony between things: God is One yet also Three, we humans are animal yet also spiritual, and The Word became Flesh and dwelt among us yet is eternally begotten of the Father.

I'll have to think on this more.

Oh! I think I'm beginning to understand the nuance between our positions. I think the distinction between our positions on Scripture is that Scripture for you must be the root of anything believed on the level of intellectual assent of Faith. These would be dogmas, those things one must believe to be considered Christian.

Where we differ is that the Catholic position is that no dogma can contradict the Scriptures, but some things do exist not written in Scripture that also must be believed. In fact, in the Apostolic, that was the whole of the Faith. This is not to say that general revelation continues to this day, which is explicitly condemned.

Now that we do have Holy Scripture, does that for you imply a close to not only general revelation but also to any dogma not written, explicitly or implicitly?

That's the definition of 'orthodox', right teaching. The one exception I can think of is their stance on divorce and remarriage. Where the early Church always forbade remarriage, the modern Orthodox Churches say it's okay after an episcopal blessing.

Save your time. Very unproductive. I shook the dust off my feet.

Life is easy when you’re allowed to lie about everyone.

I could say "You claim our Church promotes something you enjoy," but I'll refrain from committing to statements of which I am not certain.

Conversation with you is verging on entirely unproductive. Ad hominem and insults are a great way to get muted.

Okay, so if that sola is softened to mean highest singular, infallible, authoritative element, not the only element in the set of infallible authoritative things in Christianity, that allows for other forms of lower authority.

What would you say those might be? The Early Church Fathers? Ecumenical councils?

Agreed. I do have to be honest that having a Pope doesn't make all truths clear. (If I am being perfectly honest, it would seem the opposite at times!) We have politics too, and it's a mess, but when is a functioning hospital not full of people needing healing?

I have a similar experience with wrestling with the the issues. I started out knowing nothing and did my own research (DYOR is a phrase I know in another circle, but I can't my finger on it 👈😉). I started out thinking I was going to save my now wife from her religion, but things just kept favoring the Catholic position. I finally decided to join the Church, and Thanksgiving day will be my 10th anniversary. Marrying her was the second best decision I've made after joining the Church.

Yeah, the others got it. Just someone who didn't want to engage with our ideas. I'm honestly suspecting he's actually a troll.

I find Trent's approach level headed, but I agree that he sometimes goes deeper or more complex than absolutely necessary. I have too many books already on my "gotta read this sometime" list, but his 'Why We’re Catholic' should probably be on it. Also, Jimmy Akin's 'The Bible Is a Catholic Book' is another I need to read someday.

"That would become" is the pertinent phrase. It is true that the One True Religion has gone by many names over the millennia, but I think it is still useful to make a distinction in degree between the pre-Christian age and Anno Domini. For one, God was present with the Israelites and spoke with the Patriarchs, but The Word Made Flesh is with us today.

Hey! I need to get you on my list of guys to tag for Catholic stuff. Well, you're here now!