im not against algorithms and exploring new ways to find content, i agree they could be necessary as there is a clear need from users to sort content. all i said is that we're not going to win that race against big tech algorithms and that our focus should probably be somewhere else. we want nostr to thrive as a decentralized network and algorithms are not compatible with that as much as you all want it to be.
i mainly meant no algorithm feed. but beyond that, maybe no feed period is the way to go. i don't know the how yet, but i think there's so much left to explore in UX/UI. feeds are restrictive and by design addictive.
how about having no feed?!đ¨ mic drop. lets start feeding ourselves rather than getting fed. search and discovery tools are fine, but we are on a decentralized network, there will never ever be an algorithm as good or better than legacy social media algorithms.
100% agree, it seems like they can't grasp that possibility unfortunately. always screaming "let's get bigger and better, we'll win!" against big tech... damn near impossible, what a waste of time.
theres a reason why the best note discovery algorithms (DVMs) right now seem to be from primal. idk this sounds similar to the fiat mindset in a way, you gotta disconnect from that and explore new ways. users only care about stuff being convenient, so why would they bother using nostr if legacy social media offers the most relevant content to them?
why not accept the nature of nostr where there is no guarantee of anything and pulling data from big brother relays is centralizing and bad?
i think we should keep pushing for the outbox model and keep in mind that algorithms are hard to implement when data is spread everywhere.
We need a way to do algorithms which learn from user interactions. Ideally an open system, that users can choose where to give their interaction data and what their algorithms are optimized for. But we can't just put our heads in the sand and ignore their existence. All of the A/B studies where users were given chronological timelines show they'll switch their time to other apps / services that do provide an algorithmic timeline.
The question is how do we do it in an open, nostrway...
If we don't then we get a social network owned and run by Sam Altman... which honestly is terrifying. He'd make Elon and Mark seem like balanced stewards in comparison.
https://www.theverge.com/openai/648130/openai-social-network-x-competitor
why don't we have algorithms when we step outside? maybe because we are not designed to work with algorithms. there is no algorithm in real life that tells you what to look at or do. and i believe we cannot win that race against such huge companies anyway.
it is true that we are in the information era, but social media wise, nostr should probably be different and offer something new, perhaps reintroduce the natural side of human interactions? one where humans have actual free will and won't run after people or algorithms to make choices for them. i did see there are suggestions of nips for users to share what their interests are through events and such though, and overall sure why not look for new ways of doing algorithmic curation as it could attract people. but i think nostr algorithms won't ever beat big tech algorithms, probably impossible. the real change nostr brings to the table is slowly shaping itself, apps are getting faster, better and so on. i see the last few big issues for onboarding more people are UX related. (the recent spam problem is ultimately good as we're reminded that what we have is not good enough yet, its a constant work in progress)
in the beginnings of twitter, there wasn't much content on the platform and people still used it and were amazed at it, right?
i think nostr could (and to many of us, it does) give the same mind blowing moment.
as it grows and expands, people are going to come up with ideas and like with any other new technology, it will be seen as something new, not an alternative.
i suggest writing to your own relay
have you started looking into this? ive seen there are a few libraries to do homomorphic encryption
this reply is the reason why people would rather just jump straight to insults and i don't blame them for it honestly.
"The system, the world, the future gets worse every day that we stay silent about all the injustices we see" - Snowden
It's not about guilt, it's about caring for one another in this cruel world.
legally, you could be considered an accomplice. but i dont think we're talking on the legal side, more so the moral. i'll just say sure man, keep living your life not holding people accountable, don't say anything, just let it happen, you'll be fine, similar injustices couldn't happen to you right?
you're involved in it as soon as you're aware it is happening and not doing anything about it. not specific to the situation in gaza, just in general.
lets stop spreading fake newsđ
cashu is not self custodial by definition since its ecash. cash/ecash fundamentally depends on the trust put in a central authority. nonetheless, its a solid privacy respecting alternative to custodial wallets imo.
i get that, but i feel like nostr is one of the last options you would consider to host your paywalled content considering how the portability of data seems to be designed at its core.
and eventually the goal is to have more small relays and less big ones in favor of the outbox model, so in this sense i think the decision of taking "-" into account will be for users to make, not big brother relays.
so yeah i don't know if most people will respect "-", it seems like its never been easier to relay signed data though.
there are "pay 2 read" relays, but putting posts behind a paywall is the tricky part of it. the true value you're paying for in that kind of relay is the curation and anything else they may offer
there is no guarantee at all, "-" tag tries to go against one of nostr's strengths which is censorship resistance so it shouldnt be relied on.
"A culture change is possible."
today more than ever.
every npub should have its own relay it writes to, and on clients, the outbox model should be the norm.
content discovery could happen via DVM's.
npubs could still protect their relays from data crawling bots (which would realistically be how DVM's get data) by requiring PoW or payment.
in that scenario, your private data (queries sent to relays) will get spread over multiple relays rather than all getting sent to big relays
but if you're still going to use popular big relays:
with TOR on, use relays that do not require auth, AI might still br able to figure out what your npub is, based on navigation and linking profiles together... so to solve that, have your client send more queries than needed to obfuscate the actual real traffic.
these are just random ideas so that your private data is not being analyzed and sold.
#privacy #nostr thoughts?
the addictive interfaces from legacy social media being reused is probably why. i wish we had more to choose from.
the portability of data on nostr is incredibly powerful and we're not ready for it.
restricting access to nostr posts is realistically not possible from a technical standpoint.
the data is just there, undeniable and signed, ready to be relayed endlessly.
and i think this dynamic might not help having actual healthy digital interactions while social tendencies like cancel culture and such are still a thing.
an entire social complexity was developed along legacy social media.
in real life, people make mistakes and they can be forgotten, unlike on social media where people's mistakes are used as weapons, haunting them forever.
the fact that everything is signed and cannot be deemed fake or made up is fascinating.
and that's just proof that this protocol is more aimed towards censorship-resistance rather than a modern day solution to legacy social media.
but the protocol is not to blame in this regard, we, people are.
there are currently so many factors that make this whole process near impossible to achieve:
- it's not only about trust in relays, but also trust in end users as they could re-broadcast what they see.
- clients have default big pre-defined relays
users are told they "own" their data which is kind of true only under very specific conditions
among other major onboarding issues, nostr is advertised with crazy statements: "you own your data" but as many others also mentioned before, data ownership is not real, it has never been.
and you can't ever have true control over where your data is going. for this to be real, each user would have their own household relay, all clients would use outbox model and, even then, it would only work for protected events while also hoping your posts don't end up broadcasted to relays that don't care about nip-70.
this makes me think there could be data crawlers all over nostr that will find your data and possibly just sell it.
PoW and paid relays are solutions yet to be, for the former, deployed on more clients, and for the latter, accepted by people (no one wants to pay)
- there's basically no information on the biggest relays rn and who owns them as far as i know
what relays to use in order to have the broadest view possible or to help with discoverability? nostr.wine looks okay... but what else is there?
if your client doesn't use the outbox model, setting main big relays is the only way for you to discover new content.
at this point i have accepted that anything posted on nostr is automatically freely accessible to everyone on earth by default. and we should expect all the companies in the world to track everyone's data. the censorship-resistant aspect is real though.