spending so much of our money on war but a ubi is evil and shouldn’t ever be brought up.
Discussion
war spending is dispicable...and I whole heartedly agree that should be reduced...but ubi is the end of freedom as we know it ☹️ zero chance its funded with real money and not printing, and if it were funded it would be catastrophic for capital flows. We all end up so much poorer with ubi regardless of whether funded or not, simply because there is now a gigantic, corrupt broker (Federal Government) for you to get your little allowance from them. no UBI at all costs, imo.
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Money printing in any form causes these results. I recommend we print 1B per citizen and distribute it equally to everyone. That way we rip the bandaid off faster and demonstrate how the whole system of monetary manipulation is fraudulent, while also not picking winners and losers.
i agree the system is fraudelent, i disagree with making everyone poorer faster via more aggressive money printing 🤙
Why would you prefer to make everyone poorer slower?
Making everyone poorer faster would make the transition away from fraudulent money occur faster. I’d prefer my kids to grow up under a Bitcoin standard instead of my grandkids.
Also, Bitcoiners would be (relatively) unaffected. And all debts would effectively be paid off.
Wishful thinking if you ask me.
The elites won't support any agenda which makes their broken system obvious to anyone.
It will be slow and painful like the literal frog in the heated water...
That’s correct.
I just don’t understand why everyone piles on people who say that we should do UBI. Most regular people are trapped under a mountain of debt and stuck in a debasing currency where the banks get bailouts, the military gets blank checks, and they barely get food stamps.
I know UBI is horrible economically, but I like it in the interest of fairness and with the goal of accelerating the transition to a system of sound money. And at least in theory, it would accomplish both.
But if you’re against all deficit spending and want to be against UBI too, that’s 100% valid. Just understand that centralized, corrupt spending of money usually funds wars, surveillance, and propaganda, while individual people usually purchase food, housing, and energy.
The key to effective UBI is the source of funding. If the government prints fiat to fund it, that is not tenable. If funding comes from corporate displaced labor regulatory funding, it’s a win. Also, qualifications for benefits is important, if you aren’t working at something, sit home, beg or starve.
UBI destroys market incentives. Please don't entertain.
So does any form of money printing. The argument is that we should print money indiscriminately of class.
This is kind of what nostr:npub1a2cww4kn9wqte4ry70vyfwqyqvpswksna27rtxd8vty6c74era8sdcw83a was saying on nostr:npub1ahxjq4v0zlvexf7cg8j9stumqp3nrtzqzzqxa7szpmcdgqrcumdq0h5ech ‘s podcast about japan, though not specifically UBI
Supposedly they centrally manipulate their cuckbucks in a way that doesn’t almost all go to the rich and powerful
Can you imagine!!
They won’t, because the whole point of manipulation in the first place is to benefit the elite few at the expense of the productive many. But it’s great to dream 🤣
Money printing for the rich, the government, and the military is a feature, not a bug.
I'll give the pod a listen, I trust Lyn to be better informed than me, but I belive their government subsidises practically everything so net net inflation is less bad.
I also believe Japanese workers are not living a great life. Long hours at work, low wages, no time or money to start a family. People who can save in dollars.
For an exporting economy they perform horribly, I would not look at Japan for inspiration. Especially if the intent is to support lower social classes.
But maybe I have things to learn.
A C C E L E R A T E
We agree on not printing, BUT...
Poorer individuals have less freedoms. They cannot easily relocate, invest in hard assets or evade taxes. If the government appropriates their work and funnels more wealth to the already wealthy, the wheel keeps on turning.
Now flip the tables for a sec. Take wealth away from the rich and give it to people lower down the social class. The wealthy find a new tax residency, invest their money to protect themselves from inflation, or plain take their business elsewhere. All the while, you take away the incentive of workers to work. The wheel stops turning quickly.
The next highest social class leaves, and the ones down the bottom get put in worse and worse predicaments. Hell for everyone. 🇦🇷
You’re 100% right about the mechanics. I just think we get to Argentina one way or another. I’d rather give poor people more ammo to opt out with Bitcoin and repay their debts then fund wars, surveillance, and propaganda.
This one is a reach, but consider this too: Argentina has already become Argentina. For better or worse, the country has nowhere to go but up. They are very close to electing a leader who wants to abolish central banking in their country, and they have a ton of Bitcoiners and people who fundamentally understand what is wrong with money printing. They are decades ahead of the U.S. in both of those categories, and that will be their long term advantage. It’s horrible what has happened to places like that, but if it’s going to happen here either way, I’d like to make it happen quickly.
Poor people won't buy Bitcoin or pay debt. They are poor for a reason.
Nature is not only roses, the moment you try to bandaid nature's thorns you're caught up in... this, basically. Bloated governments on their way to collapse. Not easy to say but true.
A lot of my friends are poor and own Bitcoin. Under sound money people are deterministically poor for a reason, but under a fiat standard it’s much more likely that they have poor credit or a lack of family assets. I agree that many people put themselves in poverty, but it’s naive to assume that this is always the case under our current system.
No, my comment was not meant at individuals. But on a wide scale, printing more to give to poor people makes their income less meaningful and makes them more dependent.
Poor people on the way up don't need those tricks. Just give them a tax break.
You’re right. All I’m saying is that printing has the exact same effects on rich people, companies, and governments in general. I gives them no incentive to be productive, makes their income less meaningful, and makes them more dependent. I am very sympathetic to the poor worker who has gotten fucked by the system of “Bailouts for the rich, robust capitalism for the poor.”
All money printing is bad, but I hold nothing against people who call for broad money printing, since there is already so much targeted money printing anyway.
Hmmm.. I hadn't really thought of accelerationism before. It's not my currency, so I don't care too much how fast it breaks. People can vote for it but without the Central Bankers to finance it, it'll get nowhere, and I don't see them signing off on it.
But it's not the same effect when you get the money before it's lost purchasing power, you are not reliant on fixed income, and you have hard assets that are resistant to inflation.
The government is a give and take, it's all about who gives more and who takes more. Can't just look at who pays most taxes...
Anyways, thanks for the convo. ✌️ Have to wrap this up.
Thanks for the discussion, friend 🧡
The only people who can benefit from #UBI are people who don't produce anything. Any benefit they collect can only come at the expense of those who do. A society that punishes producers to reward those who produce nothing cannot survive.
Less incentive to work inevitably means that fewer will work. When fewer work, less is produced & more must be taken from those who do to support those who do not. When more is taken, those who work eventually leave or drop out of the system, leaving nothing but a country of parasites with nothing to feed on but each other.
Every compromise with people who seek to undermine property rights is a step on the road to hell. There is no middle ground.
Thankfully #Bitcoin makes UBI impossible.
Replace UBI with deficit spending and your statement is the exact same.
Personally, I’d love if everyone got 1B dollar checks. The smart can buy more Bitcoin, the poor can repay their debts, and the dollar can go to shit faster.
It’s either slow, uneven debasement or fast, distributed debasement. Rip it baby.
Yes it basically applies to all govt spending, but I'm not so sure that level of accelerationism would do anything but force intelligent people to flee the chaos. Coercive political strings would almost certainly be attached to the money & there would be massive shortages & inflation with any significant & sustained effort at UBI.
fairs. i disagree with the band aid rip idea...id rather not live in mad max capitalism. Slower the better and I know there is no world where all deficit spending is replaced with UBI...it will be UBI on top. But I also think, while unfair, targeted deficit spending is less damaging to price discovery and capital flows.
That’s true.
My main problem with targeted deficit versus broad stimulus is that the things specific deficit is targeted at are usually evil crimes against humanity. War, surveillance, property confiscation, and destructive forms of research and propaganda (COVID)
If you give average people checks, they will pay of their debt, buy food, pay rent, etc. Sure, the price discovery process is worse, but it’s the same end result as putting it all at the top and it prevents horrible central programs from being funded.
Also, Social Security is effectively UBI for old people. That already massively distorts the pricing mechanisms of society. Half of my customers are retirement age because they are the only people who can afford to not care about the price of restaurant food.
The fiat system of debt and money creation has to end, let’s get it over with.
I agree. Rip the bandaid off quick. No slow bleeding death. The shitcoin dollar needs to be exposed for what it is. To the billionaire UBI's of tomorrow 🍸🍸🍷🍷🍻🍻
well said, this is the inevitable outcome. It's not to say I don't have empathy or a desire to help those that cannot support themselves, but the tradeoff is so disastrous. We basically had temporary UBI during covid in many ways. The costs were immense, the results are being realized and they are disastrous...especially for the children of today. We should do everything we can to stop or at least slow what may be an inevitable march to UBI.
I dont agree with spending money of unnecessary wars. but neither do i agree with giving people money to be unproductive (UBI).
Both war and UBIs are terrible. One physically kills people, the other spiritually and psychologically kills people.
You know who used to receive an UBI? Slaves. They didn't need to worry about housing, clothing and security services. They were fed and kept alive. They didn't need to worry about owning anything either. The master provided and knew better what they really "needed".