We've spent the past few generations teaching girls to break out of their gendered roles, but we didn't do the same for boys. So now we have a generation of young men adapted for a world that no longer exists. We need to help them break out of their old-school gendered roles as well.
Discussion
This post is retarded.
Liberal women such as yourself have turned pushed women into male gender roles and have done everything possible to push men into feminized roles.
Women like you are retarded enough to believe men can be women.
Are you replying to the correct post? This level of vitriol seems a bit misplaced?
You find the truth to be vitriol?
Typical woman.
Well, you have a right to your opinions. But I am a bit worried for you, internet stranger, you seem to be holding a lot of anger disproportionate to the stimulus. Maybe you're just a bot like those from legacy social media, trying to spin up outrage over imaginings when looking towards building what we want would be more productive.
But if not, do you smell burnt toast? Are you in touch with any of your kids, could they check on you?
You’re why women should have never been given the right to vote.
You see rational replies that disagree with your irrationality as anger.
In crafting written communication diction does communicate tone. So when you choose to use vernacular that communicates disrespect, such as calling someone retarded multiple times on a rather innocuous post, it does communicate negative emotions. When you choose to bring in unrelated argument points, like women's voting rights when no one was talking about that, it makes it seem like you're trying to make people angry. It is a bad faith argument. Since much behavior is rooted in projection, I think it's fairly rational to assume that you're probably feeling what you're trying to get others to feel: anger.
You're framing the world as if men and women are enemies. That seems strange to me, because I am surrounded by examples of men and women loving each other and building communities together. When I dream of a utopian future, it is exactly that on a grand scale. If we are enemies, then I would like to share a philosopher from way back when who preached to love your enemies, a great source is the Gospel of Matthew 5:44.
When I am angry I find it is often rooted in fear. Some of my deepest fears are to be trapped toiling in a role that brings me despair, when what I see as my greatest talents are unappreciated by those who disrespect me. Maybe you can relate to that?
Good luck, internet stranger, I hope God sends you grace to find peace and love that we all deserve.
YOU and OP have pitted men and women against each other.
Suggesting men are at fault and need to change their view of “gender roles” while you’re promoting that boys can be girls is demonic.
I don't see where OP or myself pitted anyone against each other. And I didn't put anyone to fault anywhere I can see either. I suggested you read up on the teachings of Jesus and you're choosing to interpret that as demonic.
Which goes back to you seeming confused. It might be poor reading comprehension, but I think rather it is bad faith arguing. It must be hard living life in your mind, it seems a frightening and enraging place.
You’re either retarded or being purposefully ignorant of the discussion:
“We've spent the past few generations teaching girls to break out of their gendered roles, but we didn't do the same for boys.”
Men a busy dying every day to keep society stable and lawful and functioning. For the benefit of both men and women...
Yeah, lets break men out of that role
I think the point is they don't have to stay in that role if they are unhappy. A lot of men seem deeply unhappy these days.
In economics, we do not say "ah, I've created a pencil. I and the consumer will accept the price point that the authority figure / government sets for it." Rather we say that an invisible hand guided by individual pursuit of self interest unintentionally leads to a positive outcome for society. Why would we accept some grouping of tasks as our prescribed roles as dictated by a tradition.
In my life I've nurtured children and the dying, I've cooked and cleaned. But I've also been the breadwinner for a household when the man of the house could not, and devoted a lot of energies to intellectual pursuits. If I had not been there and it were only men, the work of living via caretaking and hygiene would still need to be done and I would consider it a good man who is capable to adjusting to the task at hand. And was it not a good thing that the man was able to focus on a new entrepreneurship while still enjoying steak instead being limited to gruel?
If men seem so deeply unhappy then they should pursue their happiness. It does seem that instead there is a large wave of men dictating that women not pursue their happiness. If a man's happiness is so utterly dependent on women following their lead, then by all means they should lead and women will follow in pursuit of their self interest. There are two types of men in this thread, one type is considered intelligent and attractive, The other is considered angry and pitiable. Which do you think women acting in their own self interest will follow?
If there is a group adamantly insisting on blindly following an authority, are they demonstrating leadership and strength? Does the market well tolerate artificial price points or does it lead to inefficient dead weight loss?
We are all self sovereign and responsible for our own actions. We all reap what we sow. And what's for us will come to us with the grace of God 🙌
They’re unhappy because women have become whores and ignore any man below an 8.
Most women are retards chasing the same 20/100 men when 80/100 women have virtually no chance but believe they do.
I mean it's literally called the world's oldest profession 🤔 so from some perspectives one could say women always were whores.
It seems like you're unhappy because recently women have become more selective. Perhaps you're feeling unappreciated by those who disrespect you? Maybe like you're worried you're going to be trapped in a role that brings you despair? I can empathize. I am sorry the state of the world makes us feel this way. I sincerely hope you find your match soon 🫂
Funny you turn this around on me.
Very woman like of you, subversive.
I won’t and don’t need to go into my personal, which is very good.
Regardless, if whoring is a woman’s default as you suggest, it’s a man’s responsibility to tame that horrid instinct out of us. Whoring should not be celebrated.
Though, you appear to be a whore so perhaps that’s why you’re defending it and the destruction of society.
I don't say it's a woman's default, just that some have always seen it as such. Which is unfortunate for them because it doesn't make them attractive individuals.
I am mostly defending the idea of self sovereignty. But you seem committed to misunderstanding me. I hope you find peace and contentment 🫂
listen, happy is a yuppie word - and women like yuppie words... they also love faggots, remember that ole schtick!?
men arent unhappy. women are empty and shallow and profoundly unfunny... and the whole fucking society has become a mirror of their unexamined internals...
men arent unhappy. you are shallow and the society that reflects you is shallow and unfulfilling in so many ways I dont have time to explain to you but will rather let you learn the hard way - by rape from invaders.
sorry.
wait hold up - i just saw that clip by chance an hiur ago and had the same reaction to those fucking two pretentious and repulsive western mutants formerly known as women....
its always just like "PLEASE WOULD YOU JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP!?!?"
are these "women" in this thread lol?
I find anger is great for arguments actually; anger represents surprise and dissatisfaction, which are great reasons to talk with someone. Insults are also a perfectly acceptable in an argument, though I try to be conservative and strategic with my insults when I'm arguing. Personally, I want to be able to argue with anyone, and so I want to avoid any insults that aren't an essential part of the topic at hand.
For example, in this conversation I believe it would be appropriate to say that you are so picky and sensitive that I have a hard time accepting that you are "just looking for a productive argument." Instead it seems much more like you are really just afraid of any argument that might challenge you or make you uncomfortable.
Do you believe it's possible that an insult could be an engaging and meaningful? Can you find any problems with my previous paragraph besides the fact that it was insulting you? How about you? Are you ever surprised or angry by the fact that someone disagrees with you? Do you always come into conversations expecting people might have a reason to disagree with you?
What a well worded response! I don't know that I find anything insulting about the observation that I am picky and sensitive, I'm pretty honest about being both 😅 and if I were afraid of arguments that were challenging, I'm not sure why I'd be carrying on arguing in the comments of strangers online 🤣
Insults can be very engaging and meaningful. It can extremely entertaining when someone gets "read to filth" and when not done in a sparring way can lead to some poignant self reflection when delivered by someone you care about.
Frankly I would get very bored very quickly if there weren't people who disagreed with me. What I don't understand is... I guess I would consider it an over reach. Like I disagree with tons of people and it doesn't lead to anything because I continue to mind my own business and let them make their own mistakes. Mind your own biscuits and life will be gravy 🤷♀️
Thank you. I don't understand that mentality at all. The things that are important for my own decisions and the things that are important for other people's decisions should always be the same. I see it as a great sign of respect that I'll barge into other people's business even though I have no right to control their life. I want to understand them and I want to make sure I share the perspective I believe is relevant for them.
If I respect other people's thinking the same way I respect my own then what other way is there to respond to a conflict between us? Don't you believe in engagement?
Sorry, maybe you wouldn't agree with my use of the word "engagement" here. It just seems to me that CensorThis's challenge was a fair and legitimate interpretation of the post. Even if CensorThis misunderstood the original post completely, it seems to me that CensorThis's reply was a good starting point to resolving that confusion.
Very interesting, thank you for sharing! I feel closer to understanding your perspective, and understanding is to me very similar to love.
When you say the things that are important for your decisions should be the same as the things that are important for others' decisions, are you suggesting we're all coming from the same place, making the same decisions for the same reasons?
To me, the phrase "respect for others' thinking" means valuing and considering other people's ideas, perspectives, and reasoning even when they differ from your own. It involves listening openly, withholding judgment, and acknowledging that others' thoughts are shaped by different experiences, knowledge, and values. It’s a key aspect of constructive dialogue, empathy, and intellectual humility. I'm really proud of you for doing the work to be so open minded 🫂
No, I am not suggesting that. Some people come in after making egregious oversights in their reasoning, some people make very wrong decisions, and even people who make the same decisions as me often make them for completely wrong reasons.
What I'm suggesting is that all people are subject to the same objective truths. I am saying that poor reasoning or decisions are poor for everyone, and good reasoning or decisions are good for everyone.
I care a lot about considering other people's ideas, perspectives, and reasoning, especially when they differ from my own. However I do not hold differing beliefs in high regard. One of my top two goals in a dialogue with someone who disagrees with me is to figure out the thoughts and values that resulted in their beliefs being so wrong.
I have actual reasons for my beliefs, so it's not really rational for me to expect that I'm wrong or that another person's beliefs are any where as good as mine. You talk a lot about openmindedness, witholding judgement and intellectual humility. Is that because you generally can't think of good reasons for your beliefs? Are you talking about emathy and dialogue in a shallow and condescending sense? Like "your beliefs are 100% cute and valid. Personally I would never believe the same thing as you because of all the thought and experience I put into my beliefs, but I think it's great that you are pursuing your... unconventional beliefs." Like do you "empathize" with someone before you've gotten them to share their actual feelings? Do you "respect" someone's thoughts, experiences, background, and values before you've actually heard any of them? Do you know any of the fundamental traits of the people and perspectives you claim to love?
I think of truth more like the metaphor of the blind men and the elephant and how we all experience the truth but it can be very different. So when I say "I empathize" I mean that I maybe don't feel the truth is a rope, I think it's a wall. But I have felt a rope before so I can understand that and I can imagine your experience. It's unfortunate you feel condescended to, that was not my intention.
What I find interesting is how badly I misunderstood your use of the phrase "respect for others thinking". I wasn't sure of your meaning based on the context, so the definition I put in my last response was just what ChatGPT gave me. It's interesting that your meaning was so diametrically opposed to the AI output, but I guess these things hallucinate sometimes.
I'm trying to come to a point of understanding because I think most people are reasonable, and I think most of the outrage bait on legacy social media is trying to goad us into fights that we wouldn't naturally be doing without nefarious external intervention.
I'm not surprised that ChatGPT responded poorly. Modern LLMs are fine-tuned to avoid conflict.
I believe that all people are reasonable, but I believe that fighting is the natural state of humans. I believe that luckily, if we get into fights with people who are very different from us earlier, the conflict will be more mild than if we try to avoid it. But we have to take our conflicts seriously in order for it to work. Since I'm right about everything, I put great effort into trying to understand the faulty thought process of all those who are wrong about something.
I think you should try to explain your position without using a metaphor or an analogy. I find that they aren't very good communication tools. Like, you didn't explicitly clarify: is the word "rope" a stand in for "something objective which we are all subject to?" And if that's a rope, then what does that make a "wall"? The metaphor itself? And what does it mean that you have "felt a rope before"?
Don't worry about upsetting me by acting condescending. I want to be able to properly engage with anyone, no matter how condescending they act. Worry more about putting your money where your mouth is. If you can truly understand and imagine my experience, then can you tell me why I believe that anger and vitriol are appropriate responses to disagreement when so many other people (like you) do not?
typical western cunt malevolence - cookie-cutter concern troll plus vicious bitch-for-bonus type...
What I observe is rather boys struggling with having no clear roles than adhering to outdated/gendered roles. Not sure if it makes sense to teach them to break out of something they don't have anymore. In my opinion it is important to convey an orientation and a sense of purpose. Positive examples instead of negative examples.
Teach them to work towards creating what they want in life versus breaking out of whatever the past is saying, no peer pressure from dead people! And isn't that just another version of sovereignty that we're all so jazzed about here? 🥰
Rather than “teach”, we “unteach”. Rather than “learn”, we “unlearn”. Less = more. You learn who you are by unlearning who they taught you to be.
