Onboarding someone with nostr:npub1hcwcj72tlyk7thtyc8nq763vwrq5p2avnyeyrrlwxrzuvdl7j3usj4h9rq is the wrong way! 
Discussion
I messed up the meme đ
Maybe itâs better when I go back to bed đŽđ„±
I think it can play a role actually. As long as the âorange pillerâ explains custody and whatnot. Success would be the person has some sats in WoS and is eager to learn how to get it into truly their posession, and start stacking, and wanna end the fed, and stuff
But why not start with Breez or Phoenix right from the beginning?
Orange pillers certainly can do that, just a little higher of a step up for the onboard-ee. But i donât think thereâs anything inherently wrong with starting at the easiest point as long as theyâre given proper context to want to learn how things really work.
Basically whatever is the best approach is for a given individual in terms of them wanting to learn more is probably the best way
Without wanting to learn there is no orange pill at all
Donât see why not. Itâs great UX.
My concerns are not about the UX
Itâs a custodial service which isnât really the heart of Bitcoin. When you use WoS you could send someone money via PayPal.
When we are not able to build non custodial lightning apps that have the same easy UX then lightning is maybe not the way to go.
In my opinion we have these apps with Breez or Phoenix and I donât understand why Bitcoiner prefer to use a custodial solution over a non custodial đ
Maybe they are not easy to use?
Baby steps. I onboarded half a dozen people to Nostr and nostr:npub1hcwcj72tlyk7thtyc8nq763vwrq5p2avnyeyrrlwxrzuvdl7j3usj4h9rq this week and the immediate positive feedback of seeing sats arriving via zaps is unbeatable.
Learning and improving is a journey.
And why do you havenât onboarded with Breez or Phoenix? Just curious
Phoenix was bad UX when I tried. Breeze - not sure. No reason really. I tried WoS and was impressed with it immediately and saw no reason to use anything else
The reason could be that WoS has nothing todo with Lightning or with bitcoin spirit at all. Itâs a single point of failure database and should avoid the app when onboard people.
If people become aware of the risks using a custodial solution on there own then feel free to use it.
But we as Bitcoiners who already know all the risks should avoid this solutions when onboarding people.
For me onboard people with WoS feels horrible wrong. đ
I tried breeze and it has a 2500 sat setup fee. Not a big deal but a big barrier for a newcomer who doesnât understand anything.
With WoS you share your address just as you would share any link and you just get paid.
A minor but super important distinction imo.
All the invoicing language is confusing when all you want to do is share and see sats come in.
Does Mutiny change the game somehow ? I trhink the 10,000 fee for setting up an initial channel is gonna be kind of scary to some people.
My guess is people who know what self custody means donât care if itâs 2500 or 10,000.
For people who donât know what any of this means they probably wonât use either app.
Yeah that's a good point . It boils my blood when you hear people complaining that managing a list of 12 words is too much to ask in exchange for self custodying a virtually limitless amount of wealth and preserving it through time visa vi the immutable laws of the universe .
I wonder who wipes their ass in the morning .
They donât see it that way. To them itâs just this stupid new thing someone is begging them to try and itâs a pain in the ass so quit.
Let the wolves of fiat have them then .
They donât see that as a problem âŠ
What is the issue here?
Why is custodial so bad for small amounts?
Start small, good UX
Real money progress to 12 words + whatever else you deem necessary
You wonât onboard people with technical nightmares. It wonât happen and frankly in 14 years it hasnât happened
Buy why should I onboard someone to a custodial solution. Then use PayPal itâs the same.
With WoS you are not really using Bitcoin you have IOYs again WoS that is my whole point.
2500sats is less than a dollar. If you are not willing to invest this amount then your time to understand Bitcoin has simply not now
IOU or not it exposes people to sats.
You can dislike it all you want but that doesnât change how people perceive things.
We have to meet them at their comfort level not they on ours unless they absolutely need it.
This is exactly correct. âWe have to meet them at their comfort levelâ
Make it easy and fun
The problem I have with the immediate self custody insistence is that it contains an assumption that people treat $10 in the same way they treat $10million
Self evidently they do not
Onboard > enjoy > educate
Onboard > enjoy > education
Thatâs exactly what the meme is about.
Sending someone sats to WoS is not âorange pillingâ
You do you. But I prefer to get people excited with the least amount of work and open the door so that they can start their bitcoin journey.
Did you and nostr:npub1rjwumr7j6tac08t0qttvc44walt549nc4eyyxjc0phn6yxzj7uzq0accc9 both buy your first sats directly into a multi-sig coldcard? If so, cool. But Iâll bet not.
Starting with custodial also means that you are teeing up the custodial vs self custodial conversation for the future in a way that has personal meaning rather than being theoretical.
I agree with you that self custodial is obviously âthe wayâ and where we want everyone to end up. We only disagree on the most effective way to get them there.
Yeah man that's rational.
đŻ
This. đŻ
Fortunately there are no Bitcoiner group rules, and no authority to enforce them.
People can use whatever wallet they like, and nobody can say they are wrong.
If anyone uses WoS more than once and SENDS sats, I consider that a huge win. Donât care about custody, no custody⊠itâs a foot in the door and itâs only the first step. Itâs not like theyâre going to stop there and only use the one thingâŠ
âŠ.non-custodial wallets are useful. Just donât keep lots on there. We have to accept that. WoS is great for small amounts
Phoenix has no LNURL