Replying to Avatar BITLEAF

Been kicking around this idea for a while to create a desktop p2p app replicating the lightning-poker.com site experience (with a few upgrades like private tables, optional names etc). I’ve got most of it mapped in my head, plenty of hurdles but it feels solvable.

Basic vision: a desktop app using p2p bittorrent style swarms to sync the game state. Provable fair shuffling using commit-reveal hash functions. Could even experiment integrating ecash to avoid a need for a lightning node to take deposits. Ecash tokens represented as chips immediately change ownership with each hand, removing any party holding funds during the game.

It’s a fun thought experiment but don’t hold back, tell me what I’m missing. Maybe I can refine this into a project worth pursuing.

#p2p #poker #lightning #ecash #cashu

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P.S lightning-poker team you’ve done great running this site for years. I mean no offense or ill will while exploring this idea

https://cdn.nostrcheck.me/dbc64e036069817292b62e3586d60f56f79cdcb4d9c8d25985cf07c6d4b85823/aff3919d9aa658ba252bac47f10aa2aa57c0f89569b274781b2ec55ffd8639e6.webp

https://cdn.nostrcheck.me/dbc64e036069817292b62e3586d60f56f79cdcb4d9c8d25985cf07c6d4b85823/08a31eb4da3e10ff91339754306934343479fa2a9152043aa88db8e80891a7f4.webp

There are some open source poker gaming pieces that could help build quickly on github… mainly re random cards etc.. i also agree i would be interested in this —

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Yeah surprised me with this much interest so I’m going to keep exploring

I dont have the time currently but it was one my high priority list…. Can you explain the ecash vs lightning issue etc ? Im curious about that

Sure! This is the aspect I’ve spent the most time thinking on. 

Existing games with lightning integration work very well and they are reliable, but it requires some central entity running a lightning node to handle deposits, escrow, and withdrawals when the game is over. The big problem with this is legally that entity is considered the “host” effectively running in an unlicensed gambling operation. I set out with a goal of decentralizing further than that so no single person would be liable. Also this would remove a need for a rake of the game, as far as I’m concerned it could run on donations. 

Ecash offers some unique possibilities. Tokens can be transferred through any medium even offline. So I was envisioning a system where when you deposit your ecash tokens into the app, you receive chips and sit down to play. In the background your ecash tokens didn’t really go anywhere. They’re just represented as chips and then are transferred between seats as the game is played.

If this works out the way I imagine, there is no central repository holding funds for the game. The tokens are temporarily stored within the game while you play and then you can take them when you’re done or even leave them in your game wallet for next time

What if there's no new hand dealt until everyone settles?

I could probably explain it better, but in my head I’m picturing the ecash being “settled” upon the end of each hand.  The system can automatically transfer the ecash to the winning seat so by the time the next hand starts all funds are technically settled, allowing players to quickly come and go and no losing player can runoff with funds 

Thanks for taking the time to write this — yes its kinda how I envisioned the issues of a central stakeholder. Buying chips at the register seems to be the way.