LeBron James is the GOAT. Most buzzer beaters in the playoffs ever so he’s more clutch than Jordan. Number 1 scorer of all time. Played against 3 times more hall of famers in the finals than Jordan. Literally plays every position on the court at the highest level. Still dominating at 40 fucking years old. If you disagree, you’re either a boomer or still mad about his decision to go to Miami. All arguments I’ve heard against LeBron being the goat have nothing to do with basketball. It’s always silly arguments like he teamed up with Wade or he is soft because he flops. LeBron is bottom 5 in free throw attempts. He doesn’t get calls and gets smacked around because he’s so big. Jordan also flopped as well. It’s part of the game because the refs can’t see everything from every angle. He’s the greatest to ever play so far👑

https://video.nostr.build/e2fada2739e68762d4f5cb24d146901215270484173dc32ba8b95e84d28c6897.mp4

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Damn

You took that personally

Yes 😂🫡

Watch Kobe’s career top 10. That’s even more impressive than Jordan imo👀

I think we should consider eras.

Not saying it’s easier as time goes on.

The conditioning, the training, & the goat ceiling is all increasingly upwards as time goes on.

Athletic abilities will only get better.

I’m curious who LeBron hands it off to now.

Arguably someone already in the league.

Those are all great points.

The best player in the league right now is a center from Serbia that just dropped 61 points and a triple double lmao. Guy is insane. He hits 3s like it’s nothing and is a better passer than magic johnson. The second best player is between a sloevnian and Nigerian. But the next best player will probably be Victor Wembanyama though. He’s 7’3 with good ball skills and still 21 years old. Insane wingspan and looks inhuman. His passing is really good as well. All the top players now can do everything and have modeled their game off LeBron.

https://video.nostr.build/08b603ae311ae4e462a4012ed7429d5ac22ff79f46d95ff6723b0ad0cfb578d1.mp4

Lebron just need to win 7 rings to edge out Jordan 🤷🏻‍♂️😂

He needs 8 to edge out Robert Horry 😂

Horry isn’t in the goat conversation 😑

Why not? It’s all about rings 😂

Jordan needs 12 to pass Bill Russell too 😭

The straw man here is “all about rings”

I didn’t say that. I said it’s what he needs to edge out MJ. If not, MJ is going to win because… well, he pretty.

Even LeBron calls him “black Jesus”. You don’t see MJ worshipping LeBron.

Why does he need that to edge out Jordan? LeBron is better in every way except for rings. But rings are not individual accomplishments. They are team accomplishments.

Fair enough, i was thinking this is basketball and basketball is a team sport. I guess we can get into the details of what goat means.

If not Jordan, who else is at the top of the hill? 🫤

I think LeBron easily at the top. I’d argue Kobe was better than Jordan too. I’ll take Duncan over Jordan, he was crazy talented.

Is there a definition of GOAT we can agree on? I am guessing thats maybe an easier thing to talk about.

AI definition:

I think the open question here is: has LeBron done “enough” to be “widely considered” to have surpassed MJ?

If you asked me that, I’d say he’ll need 7 rings and do it in a dominant way like Jordan did.

“Rosy retrospection is a cognitive bias where people tend to remember past events more positively than they actually experienced them, often viewing the past as better than the present.”

This same cognitive bias explains why people have a strange affinity toward the old days, that they may not have even experienced, like living on a farm without modern technology (e.g. hot water). These are extremely difficult lifestyles you don’t actually want. If you romanticize the past without objective evidence as to why/how the past is better, then you’re probably experiencing this cognitive bias.

https://video.nostr.build/87f51594551d12692e60f77ea198524001d796a6f324b2f8d60168e65f0fc161.mp4

I guess LeBron is going to have to retire first to take advantage of this bias.

Maybe. Or this could happen instead 😂

https://m.primal.net/QCCn.mp4

😂 c’mon. This looks like grandpa strawman.

If you argue with Jordan fans, their favorite argument is always rings 😂

It’s an intellectually lazy argument that is easily disproven when you ask why Bill Russell with 11 rings, who is a hall of famer, isn’t considered the true goat? Their answer is that era was weak. But the Jordan era was objectively weak compared to today’s era.

I would consider Russell actually. But pull up the stats. I think he got out classed because MJ because MJ did it on the stats and… styles 😅

Context matters. Go look at bill russell highlights. It’s like he is playing against 60 year olds at 24 hour fitness 😂

I don’t have the stats. But maybe here’s another way to compare goats. Take their stats from only during their championships seasons. And include the number of rings as one of the measures.

LeBron is better in this category as well haha. In the best statistical seasons of LeBron and Jordan’s careers, Jordan averaged 2 more points than LeBron but LeBron averaged 2 more rebounds and assists. They both won season and finals mvp those years. Some other important stats. Jordan never got out of the first round of the playoffs before pippen joined the team. LeBron carried the Cavs to the finals with Daniel Gibson, a rookie, being the second best player on the team. A lot of people don’t even remember who Gibson is lol. And when Jordan left for a year to play baseball, Pippen took the bulls to the semi finals. He took the bulls farther alone than Jordan ever took the bulls alone. When LeBron left the Cavs, the Cavs became the worst team in the NBA. The bulls were capable of being very competitive without Jordan but the Cavs losing LeBron made them literally the worst team in the NBA. LeBron carried his team. Jordan elevated his team.

I had AI do some of the leg work:

Here’s an updated breakdown of the major stats for Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Stephen Curry, and LeBron James during their championship seasons, now including their Player Efficiency Rating (PER):

Michael Jordan

PPG: 31.1–35.1

RPG: 4.9–7.9

APG: 3.5–6.0

FG%: 45.6%–52.4%

PER: 27.7–31.62

LeBron James

PPG: 25.3–29.8

RPG: 8.5–11.8

APG: 7.0–8.5

FG%: 44.7%–59.1%

PER: 27.3–31.6

Stephen Curry

PPG: 23.8–26.4

RPG: 4.3–5.2

APG: 6.1–7.7

FG%: 43.7%–49.5%

PER: 24.6–28.26

Kobe Bryant

PPG: 22.5–27.0

RPG: 5.2–6.3

APG: 4.9–5.5

FG%: 45.6%–46.9%

PER: 21.9–24.54

I guess this settles all debates boys

Lies, damned lies, and statistics 😂

Fun fact, the 3 point line was shorter during the Jordan era and these other players still shot better from 3 than Jordan 👀

It always comes down to era. GOAT each era is clearer.

To me, MJ remains GOAT. I grew up watching him and hating him (hardcore Knicks fan back then).

I think looking at the goat of each era is much easier. Clyde drexler used to cook Jordan though 😂

That makes the goat turn into the “gote” (greatest of this era)!

hm i like it

better even GOME, goat of my era

nah n/m that sounds weak

😄

More than enough

Agree on this definition

😂 I got you to agreeing to a definition that includes MJ as the goat!! LOL!

😂😂😂

Bird over le bron.

Facts are facts

😭

My case rest on the modern euro player. sabonis was better than any of them today and he was a bench player. Tony kukoc was probably as good as Luka. 🫳

What the hell. Admit you’re anti black Jesus. Just admit it.

Sabonis is on the kings right now lmao kukoc was so ass 😂

Exactly

Not sabonis, the Jordan killer what was his name. I can’t remember

Sabonis is the European preview version of Jokic. I liked him, but not a Jordan killer.

I fucked up the name. Sarunas Marciulionis he was a Jordan killer in the sense Jordan refused to guard him because he was just too strong. I think those early Europe players were as good if not better than today’s. But the game was not ready for them. It was all post play and clogged lanes.

Do you watch today’s nba?

I did till a few years ago. I got bored of the new style. It needs to change somehow. The shooting/spread revolution was great for a few years.

If we’re judging by flow then Curry is the 🐐. None of the euro players create space like Steph.

There is a case for that.

Hard for me to say that curry is the goat when he wasn’t even the best player on the team when the warriors won in 2017 and 2018. Durant got finals mvp for both of those championships on the warriors.

The NBA changed during 2 big pivot points in my mind. First was MJ, Second is Curry. LeBron and Jokic are like freaks of nature that changed the definition of what a basketball player is. They embodies the position less archetype.

I would say LeBron was also a pivot point. He normalized the big man being skilled in every aspect of offense. But curry was for sure a pivot point as well. He made it so that if you can’t shoot 3s you’re a liability on offense. That’s insane. Centers shooting 3s was unheard of. Dirk was a pioneer in that regard 😂

Forgot about dirk, yup he gave the Jokics of the world some green lights to let it fly.

Steph & Kobe not being mentioned in the GOAT debates is insane.

Complete misunderstanding of what basketball is for most of em, the rest are paid.

Kobe was too similar to MJ, Steph I can get behind… especially if he loads up more rings 😅

When LeBron and curry team up? 👀

Haha yeah I bet people will pay to see that. NBA are you listening?

You drank the Kool aid on that one - Kobe's leadership & IQ is completely different than MJ even if their moves are similar.

Kobe is the only player on this list to win a chip without a player on the roster averaging 20ppg a single time in their career.

Also the only player to defeat as many 50win teams otw to the chip as well.

Kobe is top 3 for sure but his team was really good. They were very strong in every position and had role players that would be starters on other average teams. Odom, Shannon Brown, Vujacic, Farmar were all really strong and complimented Kobe. Bynum was solid but his career ended poorly because of injuries and probably work ethic. And Gasol is in the hall of fame. Gasol was definitely a top 75 teammate when they won tho.

Kobe should have done everything to keep Shaq around. His legacy would have been better off, I think.

I don’t think so. He would’ve still been in Shaq’s shadow. And people would always question if he could win without Shaq. He wanted to prove that and he did.

Eventually shaq would have bowed out anyway! He would get his chance.

Kobe and Curry are better than Jordan

Someone on the pistons?

Sarunas Marciulionis he only played for a few seasons but he was tough as shit. Jorden refused to guard him.

The fact I’ve never heard of him says a lot about how good the nba was back then 😂

That is how much easier it is today or different. Today’s game is more of coaching revolution than a talent one.

You might be a victim of the rosy retrospection bias 😂

Players today are objectively more talented than they were before. Centers can pass better than magic and shoot better than bird lol

Agree. But what is this talent, I don’t think this is progression in human genetics. It is learned skill base determined by the way the game is played. Thus the argument you can’t compare eras.

Humanity is falling apart so it is hard for me to believe athletes are genetically superior to previous athletes.

Agreed. Most are not genetically superior although LeBron, Giannis, and some others clearly are superior genetic freaks. The difference is in skill development.

Yes talent wise the player has to do everything today to be considered for any playing time. If you are weak at any skills, you are a liability. It wasn’t always that way.

Exactly. Which means that on any given play, the level of talent is better overall. So LeBron getting 4 rings in this era is much more impressive than Jordan getting 6 in his era. People also don’t realize that the NBA was in an expansion phase. They added 6 new teams to the league which is 72 new players that weren’t good enough to make a team before. The new teams were easily beat up by the older teams. That inflated stats and team records. Bird and other older players commented on how weak the league was during that era. Also, Jordan was the cash cow for the NBA and Nike for a long time. They invested a lot of money building up that image to make money.

https://video.nostr.build/412ec0788dac68a48454465b159815df9591f1d7f9920e03d7fbc4a8328838c9.mp4

👍

True!

Peak🤣

What a beautiful thing

😬 that form is horrendous. Bird gets disqualified based on style.

The one guy I think that maybe come close to the “prettiness” of MJ is Ja Morant in his movement.

I think if Jordan played in the NBA today, he’d be Demar Derozan.

😂

https://x.com/chicagobulls/status/1905472863957614674

Bulls still fighting for MJ’s legacy. Turn away if you don’t want to watch make a horribly un-clutch pass.

This was insane. Posted it a few days ago after it happened. One bad play doesn’t discredit his greatness. There are so many terrible plays that Jordan made throughout his career. He couldn’t use his left hand for a good part of his career.

“Ain’t no part like a Diddy party” -LeBron James

He’s so retarded for saying that 😂

Or, he said it because he’s a predator. 🤷🏻

Doubt it. If he actually attended those parties, I don’t think he’d say that lol

His attendance of Diddy parties is documented.

What documents?

That’s the weird thing about him. For as great as he is, his insecurities are evident any interview he gives. MJ was unapologetically himself.

He does seem to clout chase a bit. Or maybe he’s trolling idk. Like when they interviewed him and he pretended to be reading a book but couldn’t answer any questions about it lmao

Haha that was one of the things I was chalking up to insecurity. Maybe he is a troll and if so I would have a new respect.

He is definitely a troll lmao

🎯 I think both Kobe and LeBron have that inauthentic vibe. I don’t know if it’s insecurity or not, maybe a symptom of being put in the spot light at too young an age.

I think Kobe is one of the most authentic guys to ever play in sports haha he’s very stoic

https://video.nostr.build/ce9eefd906fe854dd0e8e803b8a9ed693b2f5dd71569f34e10a52caed3d6b129.mp4

Maybe Kobe’s personality reminds me too much of myself for me to like him personally 😅 I recognize some of the insecurity and can relate. He’s focused and doesn’t like people much!

his 1 very public mistake

What mistake?

Rape charges?

Charges that got dropped. The accuser didn’t even testify.

Consensual love affair where she wanted him to choke her.

I’m not saying this isn’t what happened but he certainly made the mistake of being there in that situation.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/kobe-bryant-documentary-reexamines-sexual-120924954.html

Yea I would agree he made that mistake. Then it was more embarrassing because the infidelity got out and hurt his marriage. Became a distraction for the team. He never let it happen again though 🤷‍♂️

Absolutely.

LBJ has a clean slate. He’s also doing every fucking thing possible for his kids.

MJ was just a wild MF

LeBron is surprisingly a great role model for kids and a good family man. It’s impressive he didn’t let the money and fame turn him into a degenerate.

https://youtube.com/shorts/pT8PlMKWEvw

The GOAT is down, I said the GOAT is down.

Great acting career in his future as one of the comments there said

My king is down 😭💔

LBJ right now

LeBron the next play

Fool me once!

😂

1 sat zap really?

😂

All my sats are tied up in trades 😬

I got you 🫡