Why are so many American bitcoiners tone deaf about Ukraine?
Why do they sympathise with Putin?
I feel like I need to go there and do some bitcoin content
Discussion
Contrarianism and groupthink is my guess.
It's easier to sheepishly parrot something someone else said than it is to DYOR.
I think you are missing a lot of the source of the problem.
The money is broken?
I agree that the money is broken, but that's not what I meant 😂 .
The Ukrainian problem is not as simple as reducing it all to Putin invading Ukraine. That is the propaganda that has been sold in the West.
Objective facts:
- Ukraine had Russian-speaking areas, in those areas people considered themselves Russian.
- Those areas were massacred for years by Ukrainians.
- Putin repeatedly warned that if this aggression towards people he considered Russian continued he would take action.
- Expansion of NATO into the very borders of Russia.
- Chemical and bacteriological weapons laboratories.
These are objective facts, and I do not give reason to anyone, I just say that you have to understand why things happen and that Ukraine was a tremendously corrupt country with interests of the western deep state, just study a little the Maidan revolution to see that there are many things to tell.
Why nobody tells what Biden's son did in Ukraine and why he ran away?
2nd fact not true
you can shut the fuck up
The one who can shut his mouth is you fucking idiot, how many vaccinations have you had?
You clown, you shut your fucking mother up.
Zelensky cock suckers I am the worst you deny reality.
None of what u said was true
The mating call of the retarded propagandized masses
You repeat Kremlin propaganda and you dare call me propagandized?
I have russian-speaking relatives in the occupied territories. They weren't genocided, nor did they see anyone genocided.
Do you think you know truth better being located 5000 miles away, than the actual people on whose behalf you speak on?
Shouldnt you be fighting in the war? If these are your people, how have you not been conscripted to fignt an unwinnable war yet
How is it not true? Did this break your brain?
Let's start with claims that are the easiest to disprove:
"- Expansion of NATO into the very borders of Russia."
Show me NATO expansion into Russia's territory on the map. Attach the image
Onto the borders would be more accurate. But thats irrelevant. Youre arguing semantics because you have no actual points. Go to bed
"- Chemical and bacteriological weapons laboratories."
How to disprove this? I can't prove a negative
I dont know anything about that, although knowing what we know about NIH funding Wuhan lab I wouldnt be surprised. The point, which youre avoiding, is more how the US intentionally provoked this conflict
Read Scott Horton's book provoked.
Not "Russian propaganda" unless you think Foreign Policy and verifiable history is russian propaganda 🤣
Ok so I have just casually disproven the entire original post with your help. We are a great team and should continue working together in fighting propaganda
You casted doubts on parts of the post that werent relevant, while ignoring the relevant parts
As a practiced propagandist would
Do not feed the trolls!
The money being broken does seem to be why America is involved even in the slightest.Though the UK's been trying to take down Russia even from before the money broke -- they've been at odds arguably since they discovered the place, and more openly since 1649, when Charles I was executed, 45 years prior to the founding of the Bank of England.
The long and short of it is, Britain has always subsisted on maritime power. Maritime empires are threatened by land based empires, and vice versa. The same reason they took down the Ottoman empire (and continue to support the Zionist occupation despite all manner of inhumanity to prevent another power center arising) is why they cannot tolerate a strong Russia.
And fair enough -- let them fight it out. But Russia is the nation that came to the union's aid when Britain was backing the Confederacy. Russia is the nation that sold us Alaska for a handful of peanuts. And Britain is the nation that we had to fight three wars against, only to then still get dragged back into the influence of by the very president who also signed the Federal Reserve Act and instated the Income Tax, when he dragged us into WWI despite having no business there of our own. Incidentally, also the first democrat since the Civil War.
So, their fight can go on -- England likes to take things that don't belong to it, Russia likes to take things that don't belong to it. But why on Earth America would be involved in something that isn't its fight, against the side that has done us much more aggression throughout history on top of it, is beyond me, short of the fact that we have a compromised administrative state. And no, I don't hold much faith that Trump is going to really tear out the roots, even if he is pruning them back a bit.
As for why the mainstream culture in America doesn't see things this way, there's perhaps two issues: One of course is that the media, as we now have proof of, has been puppeted by the very same administrative state. But the other, perhaps bigger issue is that to Americans, just like 100 miles is a long distance to Europeans, 100 years is a long time. Those who forget the battles their forefathers fought for their sovereignty will be caught off guard when it comes time again to defend it.
I think the idea of a tint country keeping a war going with a huge country isn't smart, regardless of the countries involved. I'm not for Putin, hearing the entitlement in Zelensky, I'm not for him either. I think Ukraine needs a new leader and the war to end before everyone has been used up for something that has had plenty of opportunities to end already. It is time! Save the lives is priority number one!
I don’t get involved in centuries long border disputes.
They are sick of their taxes going to the military industrial complex via Ukraine weapon sales. Ukraine/Russia isn't the US' fight (unless NATO is involved, ethically dubious still).
Me too. But i cannot fathom a world where Putin stops at the Ukrainian border
what would you do if you were the leader of Russia and NATO wanted to keep putting missiles within more and more of your neighbors?
Throw a party, play some great records and eat tortilla chips.
I'm not sure why my political career never took off tbh.
For somebody who criticizes americans' discernment of the conflict, you sure gobble up all the state department propaganda
He blocked me on X 🤣🤣
Lol. It’s rich for Americans to talk about fears of expansionism. Are you able to a fathom a world in which America doesn’t have some 600+ bases all over the world? How about fathoming a world in which America doesn’t interfere with elections (including in Ukraine) or install dictators when beneficial for American interest? Are you able to fathom a world in which America doesn’t continue to fund a genocide in Gaza or openly talk about ethically cleansing Gaza? What about a world in which American politicians don’t openly brag about encircling China? Can you fathom how America would/will react when BRICS encroaches on American boarders?
He probably got one sentence into that and then blocked you for dissenting lmao
You need to go way deeper into the rabbit hole!
General lack of historical perspective, shitty “News” and partisan media propaganda on many sides would be my top 3. Add in a dash of cult of personality.
I think you should just do some reading. You can go a lot further back but one good place to start is the 2014 coup incontrovertibly staged by the US. Followed by the shelling of the Russian population in Eastern Ukraine for 8 years and the breaking of the two Minsk Agreements that were sincerely entered into by Russia but cynically used by NATO leaders to buy time to arm & fortify Ukraine. This last point openly admitted by Merkel and Hollande.
(And 'tone deaf' is quite rich here.)
Tell me you’ve not watched Oliver Stones documentary “Ukraine On Fire” without telling me you’ve not watched it…
In addition to the factual information in this documentary, Ukrainian NAZI’s were bombing & ethnically cleansing Russian speaking peoples of “Eastern Ukraine” Donbas region for years before Russia said enough!
… not to mention the people of Donbas voting in a referendum to reunite with Mother Russia during this time also.
when you are on the same side as the nazis you must stop and think!
For real. Like actual nazis, not the americanized "everybody I dont like is a nazi" kind lmao
The EU and those in a majority of the people in all Western nations outside of US have been brainwashed with endless propaganda for years about Putin being our modern day Hitler… it would be quite laughable (if it wasn’t such a grave situation) when you consider the actions of these same Western Govts infringement of civil liberties & human rights abuses on their own citizens in recent years.
Not to mention their proclivity for using nazi scientists after WW2
Its poetic
American conservatives are fascists, Putin does fascism, so they like it.
Now they are dumping russian propaganda in this thread, ignore it lol
Ahhh I see I see
And there you go, label it instead of arguing it
Yup, he does it alllll over this thread. Makes an accusation, then shifts the goal posts because they have no idea what theyre talking about, then act like an authority on the matter when theyre actually a child lol
Motherfucker, you are the one shifting the goal post.
A literal nazi (holocaust denier, said Churchill was worse than Hitler) said NATO expanded into Russia's territory. You defended his post. I asked you to show me this on the map - and you backed away - you said it wasn't actually true.
So you are the one who lies all the time, and when confronted you pivot. Disgusting
Dude I was defending one specific point that you refuse to acknowledge and shift the conversation to anything else. I get it, youve already admitted that youre just a dumb kid. But stfu then lol
I'm saying they support Russia because they are ideologically aligned with Putin. They agree with Russia on every other issue, so naturally they will also defend their war.
🤡
Im sure they will be happy to let you fight in the war, even if you aren't old enough
Here are couple ways Democrats are like Putin:
1. They want to control the media and stifle free speech.
2. Democratic presidents live wars
Republicans banned Reuters from attending a cabinet meeting. Republican politicians often call for deportation of people who oppose them.
The Iraq war was started by a Republican.
Trump threatened to annex Greenland and Canada.
Republicans are the ones now taking Russia's side. Why do you bring up the democrats?
Deportation of people who oppose them? People who can be deported are non-citizens. They have no right to opose any party.
Some Republicans have suggested to deport that bishop who asked Trump to spare minorities at the inauguration, and multiple such cases where they suggested to deport American-born citizens.
They are already mass firing government employees, replacing them with loyalists. If they banned the opposition tomorrow, all Republicans would cheer, HODL would make a meme about how Trump is a baded strong alpha male leader for putting all the wokies in jail lol.
Don't pretend you wouldn't be happy too
Well now this conversation best continues between you and yourself!
The Ukraine PR was lead by the same machine and tactics as the Covid PR or the "Threat to our Democracy" PR. It gets the muscle memory going.
Not mentioning that all these were top-down supported (managed) by the political elite who wanted to ban crypto and throw us all in jail for terrorism financing.
==
What's the game theory tradeoff for Putin wanting to continue further west "if we don't stop him right now in Ukraine"? Europe seems to have the same synchro-PR messaging around this.
I understand that Eastern Europe has its rightful affinity to this feeling. But from Britain, France, Bruxelles, (same as the US Dems) it feels like opportunistic exploitation of the conflict to push for further integration and censorship.
Bingo
What is it that you know, many Americans do not?
Nothing, he just parrots state dept propaganda and then criticizes the Americans that have a deeper understanding of the conflict
And then blocks those who dissent
And he calls himself a journalist
No one sympathises with Putin, everyone is fed up with propaganda blaming Putin when it is alot deeper than that. Refer to below note on this thread as a starter
nostr:note1wpwrx08svhmfdej8pg83w49px3mx8ncln8semdrn02e3d9m0z7cqxrnwzt
I think we should all give Putin some credit, it stopped "Covid" remember.
lol fair
Long live Mr Cool Vladimir Putin.
Americans or Britons would have already pushed that big red button if Russia or China had done something similar in Mexico.
If you are a country very close to a superpower, you just can't do whatever you want. Sorry fellow Ukrainians, the world doesn't want do die because you messed up with your mighty neighbor. US finally got fed up with your requests and this stupid war must end.
Good job by Orange man this time.
Man something needs to be done; Eau and UK want to keep doing the same. It’s not working…
If one were to peel back the thin veneer of performative virtue signaling and geopolitical theater, one might recognize that Ukraine’s government has long been synonymous with systemic corruption—a distinction it has neither shed nor meaningfully attempted to. As for Zelensky, the notion that he ascended to power through the organic mechanisms of democracy rather than being strategically positioned for the role is a fairytale best left to those who mistake propaganda for reality. And before the predictable cries of “Russian sympathizer” emerge from the intellectually stunted, let’s be clear: this isn’t about taking sides; it’s about acknowledging that the entire operation reeks of a well-orchestrated financial siphon, one that has conveniently served the interests of Western power players—chief among them, the Biden administration—since day one. But by all means, let’s continue pretending this is about “defending democracy.” I’m done.
why did trump give ukraine billions in aid and even more weapons than obama during trump 45? was he part of the "financial siphon" or stupid or...?
Trump’s aid to Ukraine was about restoring deterrence and countering Obama’s failure, not engaging in the unchecked financial drain we see today. He gave aid under conditions and scrutiny, whereas Biden opened the floodgates with zero accountability. To equate the two ignores the fundamental differences in their strategies.
Trump claims he will "end the war on day 1" and "it will be so easy" and the reason it wasn't ended in one day is because "Biden is stupid" but Trump is so smart and Putin likes him and will listen to him.
Well, Trump has already spoken to Putin. Why isn't the war over?
The war was started unilaterally, by Putin. Trump doesn't need to convince Zelensky to end the war. There is no deal to be made with Zelensky. There is only a negotiation with Russia to stop or Russia needs to be afraid of the consequences if they don't stop. But Trump has shown Russia who's side he is on and that there will be no consequences for Russia to continue.
Trump plays a game where heads I win, tails you lose. No matter the outcome, he will claim it is what he wanted and that it proves he was right. He doesn't stick to a position because he has no position. He simply wants to be perceived as a winner and a dealmaker. The substance of the deal is irrelevant. And sadly, most of his followers don't care about the substance either and blindly follow the conman where he leads them.
Simple. The war isn’t over because Zelensky doesn’t want it to be over.
who started the war?
you need to do a little thinking for yourself. if i come invade your house and take over your living room and then say, well its my living room. if you want peace, fuck off and agree its my living room. i will live here forever in your living room now.
if you say no and fight me and say get the fuck out of my living room, then it is "you not wanting the war to be over" and you're the bad guy?
come on man.
You know how mainstream media has a narrative they try to push. So does this alt-right media. Any many bitcoiners think they are doing independent 'research' by listening to podcasts/youtubers who are literally the same thing as msnbc, just the other side of the coin.
Putin, trump, other world leaders have figured this out and coopted said media. It was shown that russia was literally paying off many of these podcasters and yet they continue to be quite popular in many circles.
Yep good point
Scott Horton is brilliant and founded the Libertarian Institute, and he very meticulously posts very credible sources. Youre just factually wrong, and parroting the whole russiagate thing just makes you look extra retarded
russiagate? when did anyone say anything about russiagate? think you are just brainwashed to repeat the "company line"
"russiagate"
"hillary's emails"
"trans"
"woke"
try reading and using your own brain next time to form an actual argument/response. you simply refer to a 'brilliant' source without actually saying anything useful? meh.
Well you mentioned putin and trump manipulating the media, it was like 3am and I was drunk so it sounded like you were parroting that nonsense (are you claiming it wasnt real? It was a real thing lmao). Im sure your views on ukraine is still retarded though 👍
Or. Maybe. It’s just none of DC’s fucking business and we don’t want our taxes and generational DEBT spent on fucking weapons of any kind for anyone that we largely give away for “free”. And the hunter bidens of the world get kickbacks. And we get debt our grandchildren will never be able to pay
umm trump gave a ton of money and weapons to ukraine when putin was actively fighting ukraine during trump 45's 4 years in office. famously, he hated on obama for not giving ukraine enough weapons that kill people and made sure he gave away even more death machines.
now trump has had a change of heart and wants peace? please. he's struck a deal to enrich himself. how? we don't know. unfortunately it isn't as public as his other grifts like the trump coin, melania coin, stealing money from fake charity for cancer kids, etc....
My point stands.
The good news you may have overlooked is the president of the empire is not trying rain bombs on every country
I’ll take it. Trump is the only president who has reduced war fighting
If it comes with mean tweets I’ll take it
I like reduced death as well so we can agree on that point.
However, I don't think that is what we were discussing. We were talking about Trump providing even more weaponry to Ukraine vs. Obama and complaining that Biden wouldn't give Ukraine more deadly & offensive weapons during his term.
That was then
actions > words?
🎯
Is that true? Or did you hear it on the BBC?
Ukraine is just a proxy.war from the west. Money laundering etc. Get to know some Russian and Ukrainian folks and they will tell you. West kept poking for years so Russia had enough.
Why should Americans be involved one bit in the war between Russia and the UK, and whoever the latest proxy in it today is? It's been going on for 500 years, and it'll likely go on for another 500. So far it's just been a way to extract money from the tax base (or rather, run up the national debt through the money printer) to enrich private defense companies.
If the UK and Ukraine want to fight this war, more power to them. They can pay cash, just like we made the UK pay cash in WWII. Putin may not be a great guy, but surely, neither was Hitler. And definitely, neither is the Crown an institution worth bending over for, especially given their history in and toward the US itself.
Joe showing by his selective zapping of replies that he wishes to remain 'tone deaf'
He zapped the stupidest ones too 🤣🤣
from a purely libertarian perspective, neither the European union gang, nor the us gang, zelensky gang or Putin gang have any right in controlling other peoples resources. a libertarian is not for or against the putin or the zelensky gang. it is against the extraction of *my* or any ones resources, because supposedly the Putin gang is better than the zelensky gang and deserves to win, or vice versa. if you as a free individual wish to support the zelensky clan, you are free to do so, but from a natural rights perspective youcannot force other people to give up their money to support one of your favored clans.
that being sad: money that is not spend on a war in Europe and Russia will probably not be lessened in taxes and given back to the people, but will be given to some other minor interest group. That's why a lot of people call it clown world, as it deals with what stolen money should be spent in instead of questionings the value of stealing money
#gm nostr
I don't think it's about sympathizing with Putin, it's about the degree of involvement and financing America has taken on. there are always conflicts happening around the world, does that mean America should be donating trillions to everyone to help them fight?
So much emotional thinking out there
Donating ever more money probably just means the war lasts longer, more die, and Ukraine ends up in further ruin.
I sympathize with Russia, and I am from the UK. I find mainstream media tone deaf on all wars that have ever happened, and I can't help notice that they cheer on war rather than peace.
You asked a question. Now consider the answers in good faith instead of doubling down.
Its very telling that one side of this cites numerous different verifiable events and historical context, while the other side just shrieks "fake russian propaganda" 😂
The US did a coup detat in Ukraine in 2024 overthrowing the legitimate goverment. Which lead to pseudo Nazis taking over burning russians alive in Odessa and constant shelling of the eastern russian-majority oblasts for like 8 years ... I find it hard to side with Nato / Ukraine ...
It has nothing to do with sympathizing with Putin. Ukraine wants in NATO. We can’t let that happen because if it does, the US will be dragged into World War III with Russia! And when China chooses a side, who do you think that’s going to be?
Our leadership did right by the American people. I’m not looking for my son to be drafted into an endless, deadly war.
The US should leave NATO, then Europe can do whatever the f they want.
Read Provoked by Scott Horton ☺️ It’s a complete walk through the last 30 years of US (western) foreign policy which lead to this. Written by a non-voting Ron Paul Libertarian from Texas, not a “Kremlin Agent/Putin puppet blah blah”.
we don't want our tax dollars going to more wars and I'm done fighting for the military industrial complex. The only people that profit from this bs is the central bank.
Wanting people to stop dying and our money not going to waste does not equate to sympathizing with Putin.
Im too worried about the US to care about Ukraine or Russia
oh, that would be kinda interesting.. 🤔
Cuz Putin has big dick energy and Zelenskyy is a scammer.
I think Americans follow the Monroe Doctrine pretty closely (as a hedgemon.)
2 points you're missing Joe:
1. Unlike the UK, our county shares a boarder with Russia.
2. The crisis in Ukraine does not constitute a response from our government, nor should it.
I encourage you to go farm some new content.
It is funny that people say that the world doesn’t want to die in a WWIII just because a country is trying to defend itself from an invader. Will these people think the same if it was their country? Their homes? Their children at stake . In this dystopian way of thinking the oppressed become the people to blame #metaverse
most americans feel no love for the place where their tax dollars go to be laundered.