I finally spent 10 minutes to understand Israel Palestine conflict. It seems initially British and eventually US geopolitical interests is the reason Israel exists?
Discussion
That’s my understanding too. The issue seems to be with zionism specifically, not just jews in general. From what I understand jews, christians, and muslims used to leave peacefully in that land until european jews moved there with British support/influence and basically claimed land that was already being occupied. I’m sure there is a lot more nuance
And the thousands of years old relationship of the Jewish people with that piece of land
Right but why didn’t they organize prior to western support? Why were US and British governments lobbied for support and why did those nations get involved in a region far removed from themselves? Geopolitics over Suez Canal?
How about a holocaust as a strong incentive to create your own state to not get exterminated?
The Zionist movement predates the holocaust and was first used to serve the British interests in the area. Makes sense. But doesn’t exactly make the Muslim nation happy. Understandably so, especially with European Zionist leaders starting the movement.
The West wants influence in the region.
It’s not about their safety.
Israel can fit in land owned by the US Forest Service 
As always. I feel it’s extremely naive to believe we’d be in any areas we don’t belong for the good of the people.
Things happen because there’s will for them to happen.
The US and Europe liked this for geopolitical reasons, for sure.
As for the Jewish people, I refer to my previous comment.
I do not condone nor do I support colonialism or oppression, though.
I have not skin in the game either.
You are uninformed. Eastern European Jews had been migrating to Ottoman Syria in significant numbers since the 18th century, and in greater numbers at the turn of the 20th century. Due to increasingly violent pogroms and hostility in Russia, mainly (but not only). The amount of them that went to Palestine was small compared for instance to the US because, simply, Palestine was a poor and unimportant backwater province of a decadent empire. It's because they were organized that Western powers decided to help them, not the other way around. And perhaps, maybe, who knows! what happened in Central and Eastern Europe during the 40's also was an incentive to go somewhere where they could claim to be the majority, for the first time in centuries...
Indeed. There seems to be no way to get around the thing, if even intelligent people are inclined to simplification. Humans being humans… A possible solution? Internet global culture, that will help tie less identities to land and ancient (warrior) cultures, and more to… (won’t say Bitcoin…), BTC.
if you consider they were all jewish back then (all semites, in the end)… then karnage has a (pretty legit) point.
Not denying any of the other factors.
I just want to understand the origins of this conflict without any bias. This is hard as anything I read is already probably biased so I try to query chatgpt in multiple ways to see what it says and try to draw my own conclusions. Talking to people only clouds any fair judgment as I feel there’s so much uninformed heated exchange online. I have no skin in the game on either side and just want the facts of what events unfolded to get to where we are today.
trust me, 10 minutes ain’t enough. there’s the british/north-american issue, as you’ve pointed out, and the land invasion, millions of people displaced. there’s the us support to hamas back in the ussr days (and basically to all the modern days terrorist groups). there’s the holocaust appeal. and there’s the historical dispute for the land. if you were to read one book about it, I’d recommend parting ways by judith butler (forget bout the queerness, just read it). and there are the numbers, as I’ve recently observed: 20 palestinian deaths to 1 jewish in the last 15 years. yom kippur and nabka are also a good start to understand it.
Can’t zap you Ishak 🫤
Error fetching Lightning invoice
the address was wrong indeed, must have been some shit I did during my existencial crisis days a couple weeks ago 🤡
Of course. But I much prefer querying chatgpt because I can ask it to play the devils advocate and use anything I see there as a starting off point into other areas of interest. Simplifies and accelerates learning.
Whales. Ancient whales call that territory home waters and the ancient memes inspired by blood and shiny rocks still echo across the stones. The stones are cast, the blood will spill and the ancient memes will be refreshed.
See Rothbard, [War Guilt in the Middle East](https://mises.org/library/war-guilt-middle-east)
Yeah, the British divided up the middle east after WW1, intentionally cutting ethnic groups to ensure the region would remain weak and unstable.
I used to be on the pure "ra ra little democratic Israel fighting evil Islamic terrorists and dictators" bandwagon, but then I listened to the Martyrmade podcast series on the founding of Isreal. Different narrative comes out once you get all the context. Don't get me wrong, they have the right to exist, but it's a nasty and complicated story.
I also listened to a Jocko Podcast on how Israeli planes and torpedo boats tried to destroy an American ship in the 60s. The USS Liberty. He interviewed some survivors. They were about to land commandos on the deck as a last attempt to kill them all, but aborted and flew off. Gets you conspiracy wheels turning.