Replying to Avatar allen

hot take: I get that custodial lightning is not remotely decentralized, sovereign, trustless, etc. - all that good shit …

… but is nobody else outrageously excited by how much of an improvement over fiat it is? not just in its own right but even explicitly in terms of decentralisation, sovereignty, and trustlessness?

it strikes me as a key vector of bitcoin driving jurisdictional arbitrage, for one. say some authoritarian regime cracks down on bitcoin (whatever that ends up meaning in practice, doesn’t really matter) and makes it politically risky to run a node, or manage liquidity, or be seen as “transmitting money”, or whatever. if there is a trustworthy custodial lightning provider *literally anywhere in the world* you can anonymously spin up the ability to receive payments in seconds. “anonymously” and “in seconds” are both groundbreaking advances if you have any familiarity whatsoever with fiat banking and payment rails.

if you think about it, you actually can’t get this with “real” lightning either. it’s not instant (to set up) and you need to know people who presumably trust you to some small extent to get to the point of workable liquidity and stay there (perhaps under-discussed, but if channel partners “don’t trust you”, they will close or never open, and you can’t use lightning at all. WhO’s TrUsTlEsS nOw HuH?!?)

so yes, this requires trust, but like, fuck me, so does everything in real life 😂 - being overly negative on this strikes me as a kind of core fallacy of appreciating open and decentralized systems: that it’s a spectrum, not a binary. how open and decentralized the foundation is represents the maximum openness and decentralisation of anything built on top, *not the minimum*!

moving away from completely closed and centralised does not necessitate the opposite, it opens up an entire range of new possibilities, all of which come with tradeoffs. but tradeoffs are relative to circumstances in real life, and in real life, selective trust is very much a thing because We LiVe In A sOcIeTy 🤪 - talking about tradeoffs in absolute terms as if the decision to accept them can be made entirely devoid of context is highly regarded. and this isn’t even to get into the rather obvious line of argument that if you want people to ever get to the extreme, having a spectrum to gradually move along is far more appealing than requiring them to jump in at the deep end. i.e. it’s also amazing for adoption.

in conclusion, don’t be highly regarded. support adoption. agree with my hot take. gm, pv 🤙

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This image hit me hard 🫂👊🏻

🔥🫂

lol, this pic was so powerful it caused my client to crash and forced me to quit and restart 😂

EXCELLENT 👏 MEMECRAFT 👏 SIR 👏

😂🫡

“WoS is a Shitcoin” - Bitcoin Commissar

Lightning is a shitcoin for that matter 😂 You wanna zap me on Nostr from now on? Here’s my on-chain zapddress:

bc1qjg6htcw0u88728hm5edxa3l652kppqdaq8z799

And now I can never delete that wallet, because what if… 😅

Now if you ever receive coins in that address I can follow up on future utxo movements and maybe figure out some of your activity.. that’s why addresses shouldn’t be shared publicly .. and that’s why Lightning is so much better for that :)

😅

That fee tho 👁️👄👁️

onchain is a shitcoin. confirmation times are unacceptable and chain split risks are too scary. I’m gonna need the private keys to your utxos please.

Makes sense, it’s bacon, bacon, bac… you know what though, and hear me out, but what if we think outside the box here? What if we each contribute to a shared account that requires both our private keys to use it? Then let’s keep a shared Google sheet of how much of that total balance each of us owns, and update that record as we transact back and forth until we’re ready to close it. There’d be a few minor details to iron out but that’d be way quicker than waiting for on chain confirmations AND we wouldn’t have to give each other our private keys. 🤯

you know I’ve thought about it some more and money is a shitcoin. just give me the stuff I actually want to consume please. I want a potential rug-pull window of precisely zero, thank you.

Dang … I don’t have any of the stuff you want to consume, only a representation of stored value that could be exchanged for it with someone else that does have it… sorry if this whole thing was a waste of time.

wtf bro

I know… just sent you half a cent. That oughta make up for it? 🫶

I DONT WANT MONEY I WANT STUFF ARRRRRRGHHHHH

🤣

What kinda stuff?

Allen, that’s simple you just buy all the stuff you want. But what if you don’t want anymore stuff? But your owed stuff? Say if this stuff isn’t liquid then won’t you want

That excess stuff in some kinda liquid form like money?

💀