Fact about Chaumian ecash: the mint can't revert transactions—it doesn't execute or even record them.
Once ecash has moved from one user to another, it's done.
Even the holy bitcoin blockchain reorgs every now and then. But nobody can revert a fully centralized ecash mint.
The mint is a machine that swaps old bills for new ones. There's no concept of accounts involved and even the mint doesn't get to see the new bills in the process as it really jus assists the client who actuall creates these bills.
I finally went down the rabbit hole last week on how all this works and it’s so cool. Downloaded macadamia wallet and started testing minting and redeeming tokens. So easy. Very bullish on ecash now.
In coinos.io ( nostr:nprofile1qqs9vmqkduad4vxglwja5q2mpvauer4nd9452he2r4pml0vhqktyd2qpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujucm0d9hx7uewd9hj7aqfmp9 nostr:npub1w27mc4aa6m0ufe3xs5z3m6qyr52gc0rglept7vqlwx4xeaf72tasnqz70r ) everything is integrated on the back end: on-chain, lightning, ecash and liquid. Not sure if it retains the properties calle mentioned here.
he fee to exit on-chain is 0.4%; not 100% sure.
Hey do hoy know if there is any mint already doing sat to usd denominated ecash and if Macademia would support it?
ecash is an interesting thing. It has greater privacy, but not guaranteed bridging or a recovery mechanism. If reasonable values are held for a small amount of time on an honest mint, there are interesting use cases. My Bitcoin Deposits proposal is focused on accounts because this allows value to be moved to other providers when an operator wants to exit, but I also see the potential in some design of ecash with guaranteed Lightning bridging being implemented using the same system
What about NUT14? Refund path of an HTLC-locked proof is not reverting strictly speaking but a way to spend otherwise promised ecash right?
I'm thinking about using that to undo p2pk zaps if sth happens and recipient doesn't receive and redeem a zap in a week or two.
What do you think?
How about adding a locktime and refund pk(s) to revert your p2pk eCash if not redeemed?
Yes that's the idea, basically.
If I want to send ecash as payment for freelancing on [SatShoot](https://satshoot.com) I want to do it with p2pk so it is easy to build Reputation from provable zaps, published to nostr but tied to the recipient pubkey.
The problem is when the zap cannot reach the recipient which could be due to multiple causes but I want to have a safe path for clients to get back the p2pk ecash that was never redeemed by the recipient freelancer.
Sounds like p2pk with a timelocked refund path could be useful!
Take a look at Cashu NutLock as an example of tokens with refund timelock.
🥜󠅓󠅑󠅣󠅘󠅥󠄲󠅟󠄢󠄶󠅤󠅕󠄳󠄺󠅟󠅔󠄸󠅂󠅧󠅓󠅪󠅟󠅦󠄼󠄢󠄡󠅠󠅒󠅞󠅁󠅥󠅒󠅇󠅜󠅥󠅑󠅇󠄺󠅠󠅔󠄸󠄽󠅥󠅉󠄢󠄶󠅪󠅑󠄳󠄩󠄳󠅑󠅈󠅂󠅚󠅒󠄢󠅜󠅥󠅉󠅈󠅆󠅚󠅓󠄢󠄶󠄠󠅉󠅈󠅃󠄲󠅟󠅝󠄶󠅠󠅃󠄱󠄲󠅁󠄲󠅆󠄴󠅧󠅃󠅅󠄶󠄷󠅉󠅈󠄳󠄴󠅠󠄷󠄶󠅘󠄱󠅇󠄶󠅪󠅕󠅁󠄵󠅅󠅇󠅩󠄺󠅁󠄽󠅜󠄲󠄼󠄹󠅙󠅨󠄧󠄹󠅝󠄥󠅦󠅒󠅝󠄾󠅜󠄹󠅚󠅟󠅙󠄽󠅪󠄹󠄠󠅉󠅪󠅉󠄥󠅉󠅄󠅜󠅙󠄾󠅇󠄹󠄠󠅉󠅪󠅅󠄣󠅊󠅚󠅔󠅝󠅉󠄢󠄶󠅜󠄿󠄴󠅗󠄠󠄿󠄷󠅅󠄤󠄾󠅝󠅁󠄠󠄾󠄢󠅁󠄠󠅊󠄴󠅅󠄡󠅊󠅄󠅓󠄣󠄾󠅪󠄺󠅝󠄽󠄷󠅁󠄤󠅊󠅝󠅅󠄠󠄽󠅝󠅁󠅧󠅊󠅚󠅂󠅜󠄾󠅪󠅗󠄡󠄽󠅚󠄱󠄠󠄾󠅪󠅉󠄡󠅊󠅃󠄹󠅣󠄹󠅝󠅂󠅘󠅔󠄷󠄵󠅙󠄿󠅙󠄹󠅧󠄽󠅝󠅁󠅧󠄾󠄷󠅆󠅚󠅊󠅚󠄽󠅪󠅉󠅄󠄽󠅧󠄽󠄢󠄵󠄡󠄿󠅄󠅗󠄡󠄽󠅝󠅊󠅛󠅉󠅚󠅉󠄤󠄽󠅇󠅆󠅛󠄿󠄷󠄹󠄠󠄽󠅄󠄹󠅩󠄽󠄴󠄶󠅙󠅉󠅄󠅗󠄡󠅊󠄴󠅘󠅛󠄽󠅚󠄵󠄥󠄿󠅇󠄶󠅜󠅉󠅪󠅓󠅪󠅉󠄢󠄹󠄢󠄽󠅚󠅉󠄤󠄽󠅇󠅁󠄢󠄽󠅝󠄶󠅘󠄿󠅄󠄱󠅙󠄼󠄳󠄺󠄠󠅉󠅇󠅔󠅪󠄹󠅚󠅠󠅒󠅇󠅩󠄺󠅣󠅒󠄢󠄾󠅢󠅔󠄷󠅜󠅤󠅊󠅃󠄹󠅣󠄹󠅚󠄵󠄣󠄾󠅄󠄽󠄠󠄿󠄴󠅁󠅪󠄾󠄴󠄱󠅙󠅈󠅃󠅨󠅒󠄹󠅞󠄺󠅜󠅊󠅞󠅆󠅥󠅊󠄳󠄹󠅣󠄹󠅚󠄱󠅩󠅉󠄢󠅆󠅚󠄽󠄷󠅉󠄠󠄾󠄷󠅁󠅧󠅊󠄴󠅉󠄠󠅊󠄴󠅊󠅛󠄿󠅇󠅁󠄣󠅉󠅄󠄶󠅚󠄿󠄴󠅂󠅚󠄽󠅪󠄽󠅧󠅊󠅚󠅅󠄠󠄾󠅚󠅔󠅜󠄾󠅪󠅅󠅩󠅉󠄢󠄽󠄤󠅉󠅚󠄱󠄢󠄾󠅇󠅉󠄣󠄽󠅚󠄲󠅜󠄿󠄴󠅓󠄠󠅉󠅄󠄲󠅙󠅊󠅇󠅁󠅨󠅉󠅪󠅅󠄠󠄽󠅄󠅊󠅛󠄽󠅙󠄺󠅔󠅈󠅈󠄡󠅔󠅉󠅇󠄾󠅉󠄹󠅁󠄽󠅗󠅡󠅔󠅒󠅛󠄣󠅓󠅇󠅤󠄧󠅒󠅏󠄼󠅪󠄽󠅦󠄲󠄻󠅡󠅆󠅆󠄥󠅉󠄼󠄧󠅖󠄡󠅝󠄳󠅗󠅆󠄤󠄿󠄴󠄾󠅆󠅉󠄧󠅨󠅅󠄩󠅧󠄢󠄶󠅛󠅟󠄢󠄶󠅜󠅇󠄳󠄲󠄹󠄴󠅗󠄿󠅈󠄠󠄼󠄻󠅉󠅡󠄥󠄠󠅢󠅥󠅧󠅤󠅣󠄻󠅅󠄶󠅙󠄽󠅅󠄵󠄿󠄹󠅔󠅙󠅤󠄩󠅧󠄱󠅑󠅂󠅚󠅛󠅣󠅁󠅨󠅓󠄹󠄹󠅝󠄶󠅪󠅇󠄳󠄳󠅅󠅀󠄷󠄾󠅆󠄣󠅛󠅚󠄱󠄸󠅏󠅙󠅊󠅆󠅑󠅂󠅀󠅀󠄡󠄶󠄸󠅄󠄤󠅝󠅪󠄡󠄠󠄹󠅨󠄷󠄶󠄦󠄳󠄦󠄸󠅞󠅕󠅟󠅗󠅦󠅈󠄵󠅇󠄶󠅩󠅇󠄳󠄲󠄻󠄢󠅒󠅩󠄤󠅁󠅒󠅊󠅂󠅣󠅗󠅘󠅂󠅞󠅗󠅏󠅙󠅟󠅄󠅗󠅚󠅓󠅏󠅃󠄹󠄿󠅀󠅖󠅧󠄝󠅈󠅘󠅝󠄥󠅑󠅗󠄣󠄲󠄧󠄨󠅄󠅃󠅑󠅂󠅘󠅉󠅁󠅂󠅘󠅓󠄣󠅛󠄲󠄶󠄶󠅣󠅙󠅅󠄴󠄺󠅁󠅃󠅩󠄹󠅣󠅕󠅩󠄺󠅥󠅒󠄢󠄥󠅚󠅊󠅃󠄹󠄦󠄹󠅚󠅗󠄢󠄽󠅄󠄹󠄠󠅊󠅝󠅅󠄡󠄿󠅇󠅉󠄤󠄿󠅇󠄵󠄤󠄾󠅇󠅅󠄥󠄿󠄴󠄽󠅧󠄾󠄴󠅊󠅘󠄽󠅪󠄱󠅪󠄾󠅄󠅜󠅚󠄾󠅚󠅅󠄥󠄿󠄷󠄵󠄣󠄿󠅄󠄺󠅘󠅊󠄷󠅉󠄢󠅊󠄴󠅓󠄣󠅊󠅇󠅅󠅩󠅊󠅝󠅁󠄤󠅉󠅇󠄵󠅩󠅊󠅇󠅅󠅪󠄾󠄴󠅂󠅛󠄾󠅪󠅅󠅪󠄾󠄴󠄽󠅙󠄼󠄳󠄺󠅛󠅉󠅈󠅂󠅘󠄹󠅚󠅟󠅙󠄽󠄴󠄺󠅛󠄽󠄴󠅂󠅜󠅉󠄢󠅉󠅪󠄽󠄢󠄵󠅪󠄽󠄴󠄾󠅘󠄾󠅄󠅛󠄤󠄾󠅄󠄺󠅝󠅊󠄷󠄹󠄢󠄿󠄴󠄶󠅜󠅊󠄴󠅘󠅙󠄾󠄴󠄵󠅩󠄽󠅚󠄱󠅨󠅉󠅝󠄵󠄤󠄾󠅇󠅁󠄤󠅊󠄴󠄹󠅨󠄿󠅄󠅜󠅘󠅊󠅇󠄽󠄣󠄽󠄢󠄾󠅙󠄾󠅚󠄹󠄢󠄿󠄴󠄶󠅛󠄾󠅚󠄺󠅘󠅉󠅄󠅛󠅧󠄹󠅙󠅧󠅙󠅔󠄷󠄶󠅞󠅓󠅩󠄹󠄦󠅇󠄡󠅣󠅙󠅒󠄷󠄩󠅚󠅑󠄣󠅂󠅠󠅒󠅇󠅅󠅙󠄼󠄳󠄹󠅨󠄾󠅪󠅅󠅪󠄾󠄴󠅗󠄠󠄽󠅪󠅁󠅧󠄹󠅜󠄠󠅣󠅇󠅩󠄺󠅩󠅊󠅇󠅊󠄡󠅒󠅝󠅁󠅙󠄼󠄳󠄹󠅧󠄽󠅝󠄾󠅜󠅉󠅪󠄲󠅝󠄾󠄴󠅂󠅛󠄽󠄷󠅁󠄢󠄾󠄷󠅁󠄢󠅊󠄴󠅜󠅛󠄾󠄢󠄵󠅨󠅉󠅪󠅗󠄠󠅉󠅪󠄽󠅪󠄽󠄷󠅉󠄡󠄾󠄴󠅉󠄣󠅊󠅄󠅓󠄡󠄽󠅝󠄾󠅚󠄿󠄷󠄹󠅧󠄾󠅚󠅆󠅝󠄾󠅪󠄹󠅧󠅊󠅄󠅗󠄣󠄾󠄷󠄵󠅧󠅉󠅝󠅆󠅛󠄽󠅇󠄽󠄡󠄾󠄴󠄵󠄢󠅊󠄴󠄹󠅙󠅈󠅆󠄡󠄩󠅈󠅇󠄶󠅚󠅇󠄳󠄵󠄴󠅟󠅢󠅝󠄾󠅂󠅥󠄝󠅓󠄨󠅃󠅦󠅢󠄥󠄨󠄨󠅖󠅛󠄾󠄩󠅧󠄵󠅞󠅅󠄶󠅞󠅪󠄝󠄻󠄿󠅃󠄿󠅠󠅜󠅉󠄾󠅜󠄹󠅛󠅟󠅁󠅓󠄡󠄥󠅘󠅊󠄻󠄾󠅘󠅊󠅆󠅗󠅗󠅢󠅆󠅑󠄡󠅘󠅀󠅉󠄸󠄵󠅕󠅦󠄶󠅜󠅦󠅧󠅩󠅧󠄺󠅚󠅁󠅚󠅠󠅕󠅇󠅘󠅊󠅈󠅝󠅊󠅉󠅗󠄺󠄡󠅓󠅝󠄶󠄳󠅣󠄻󠄢󠄳󠄹󠄡󠅘󠅓󠄡󠅗󠅗󠅏󠅨󠅆󠅘󠄺󠅄󠄼󠄡󠅀󠅓󠄶󠄿󠄸󠄸󠄹󠄡󠄥󠄷󠅖󠄥󠅉󠅠󠅀󠄥󠅗󠅣󠅘󠄱󠅥󠄩󠅃󠅧󠅕󠅟󠄧󠄩󠅣󠄩󠅨󠅥󠅗󠅤󠄺󠅘󠅓󠅜󠅗󠅗󠄾󠅪󠅚󠄳󠅗󠅂󠄴󠄦󠅞󠅀󠄡󠅢󠅙󠅈󠅊󠄢󠄲󠅦󠅏󠅙󠄺󠄣󠄺󠅞󠄶󠅟󠄳󠄵󠄽󠄦󠄹󠅏󠅏󠄴󠄨󠅪󠄦󠅃󠅕󠅚󠅙󠅕󠄷󠅛󠅉󠅇󠄵󠅁󠅉󠅈󠄾󠄥󠄱󠅂󠅂󠅒󠄹󠅜󠄱󠅩󠅅󠄵󠅣󠅙󠄼󠄸󠅣󠅙󠅒󠅝󠄩󠅥󠅉󠄢󠅅󠅙󠄿󠅙󠄹󠅪󠄾󠄴󠅁󠅩󠅊󠅇󠄵󠄤󠅊󠄴󠄺󠅜󠄽󠄴󠅔󠅘󠅊󠄷󠄵󠄠󠄽󠅚󠅊󠅙󠅉󠄢󠄹󠄥󠄿󠅇󠄹󠅨󠄿󠅇󠄽󠄣󠅊󠅚󠅓󠄤󠄾󠅄󠄱󠅪󠄾󠄴󠄱󠄥󠅉󠅄󠄶󠅙󠄿󠄷󠅁󠄣󠄿󠄴󠄶󠅚󠄾󠄴󠅗󠄤󠄿󠅄󠄶󠅜󠄽󠄴󠅂󠅚󠄽󠄴󠅛󠅪󠄿󠄴󠄾󠅜󠄽󠅄󠅆󠅛󠄹󠅙󠅧󠅙󠅊󠄷󠄶󠄠󠅉󠅃󠄹󠄦󠄹󠅚󠄱󠅩󠅊󠄴󠄱󠄠󠅊󠅇󠄾󠅝󠄽󠅪󠄾󠅘󠄽󠅪󠄱󠅪󠅉󠅄󠅅󠄥󠄿󠄴󠅅󠅩󠅊󠅝󠅂󠅙󠄾󠅚󠅗󠅨󠅊󠅇󠅁󠄤󠅉󠅚󠅁󠅨󠄽󠅚󠄹󠅧󠄽󠅇󠄺󠅘󠄿󠄴󠅆󠅛󠄿󠄷󠅁󠅩󠄽󠅄󠅛󠄥󠅉󠅇󠅆󠅚󠄾󠅪󠄾󠅚󠅉󠅚󠅉󠅩󠄾󠅚󠅗󠅨󠅊󠄴󠅉󠅩󠅉󠅇󠄵󠄥󠄽󠄳󠄹󠅣󠄹󠅞󠅂󠅘󠅊󠄣󠄽󠅙󠄿󠅜󠅤󠅒󠄹󠅝󠅨󠅦󠅉󠄢󠅤󠄠󠅑󠅇󠄡󠅜󠄹󠅙󠅧󠅙󠄽󠅄󠅓󠄡󠄽󠅪󠅁󠄤󠄾󠄴󠄽󠄠󠄽󠄳󠄺󠅔󠄼󠄶󠅣󠅙󠅓󠅝󠅆󠅝󠅔󠅇󠄥󠅛󠄹󠅙󠅧󠅙󠄽󠄴󠄺󠅚󠅊󠅇󠄽󠅧󠅊󠅚󠅁󠄠󠅊󠄴󠄲󠅛󠄾󠅚󠅂󠅛󠄾󠅝󠅁󠄥󠅊󠄴󠅔󠅘󠄽󠅇󠄽󠄤󠄾󠄷󠄽󠅪󠄽󠅪󠄲󠅝󠄾󠅄󠅁󠄢󠄾󠄢󠅅󠄣󠄾󠅄󠄺󠅚󠅉󠅪󠅘󠅙󠄽󠄴󠅉󠄡󠅊󠅚󠅓󠅩󠄽󠄷󠅅󠄤󠄾󠅪󠅂󠅘󠄽󠄷󠄺󠅜󠅊󠄴󠄶󠅚󠄾󠅄󠅁󠅨󠄾󠅝󠅁󠅩󠄹󠅜󠄡󠅔󠅖󠅆󠄡󠅘󠅉󠄡󠅗󠅘󠄱󠄡󠄽󠅩󠅥󠄿󠄶󠄿󠅗󠅠󠄶󠅊󠅞󠅖󠅄󠅜󠄺󠅓󠅝󠄳󠅖󠄥󠄵󠅓󠄧󠅏󠅂󠅥󠄧󠅩󠅡󠅘󠅆󠄠󠅄󠅢󠄥󠅢󠅟󠄸󠄵󠅈󠅁󠅀󠅉󠅇󠅃󠅚󠅉󠅇󠅆󠅉󠄹󠄹󠄩󠅉󠅤󠅊󠅗󠄡󠅆󠅪󠅧󠄤󠅕󠄣󠄨󠄵󠄝󠅅󠅨󠄵󠄢󠄵󠄦󠅀󠅧󠄺󠄤󠅑󠅡󠅤󠅕󠄸󠅀󠄶󠅘󠄸󠅑󠅔󠅄󠅈󠄧󠅇󠄿󠅣󠅉󠅈󠄾󠅉󠄹󠄲󠄳󠄻󠄼󠄤󠅂󠅞󠄥󠄧󠅨󠅣󠅆󠅞󠄱󠄻󠅂󠄨󠄽󠄩󠄨󠄠󠄸󠄢󠅑󠄠󠅄󠅕󠅗󠅂󠅟󠄻󠅇󠅅󠅈󠅠󠄹󠄥󠄥󠅁󠄶󠅖󠄧󠅑󠅉󠅈󠄺󠅉󠄹󠄴󠄤󠄾󠅕󠄺󠅏󠄡󠅑󠅒󠅛󠄥󠅓󠄶󠄽󠅒󠅀󠅠󠅤󠅀󠅤󠅨󠄶󠅖󠄱󠄸󠅂󠄻󠄨󠅑󠄷󠅙󠅢󠄸󠄳󠅜󠄻󠅅󠄤󠄥󠅜󠄲󠅆󠅏
... sigh ... I love cashu
it feels like a weird intersection that single purpose appliance that just does one thing really well & the swiss army knife that does everything
... except self custody, but that's okay
my fiat wallet does self custody, but nothing else ...
