Replying to Avatar calle

Fact about Chaumian ecash: the mint can't revert transactionsβ€”it doesn't execute or even record them.

Once ecash has moved from one user to another, it's done.

Even the holy bitcoin blockchain reorgs every now and then. But nobody can revert a fully centralized ecash mint.
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Five 5mo ago

What about NUT14? Refund path of an HTLC-locked proof is not reverting strictly speaking but a way to spend otherwise promised ecash right?

I'm thinking about using that to undo p2pk zaps if sth happens and recipient doesn't receive and redeem a zap in a week or two.

What do you think?

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Rob Woodgate 5mo ago

How about adding a locktime and refund pk(s) to revert your p2pk eCash if not redeemed?

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Five 5mo ago

Yes that's the idea, basically.

If I want to send ecash as payment for freelancing on [SatShoot](https://satshoot.com) I want to do it with p2pk so it is easy to build Reputation from provable zaps, published to nostr but tied to the recipient pubkey.

The problem is when the zap cannot reach the recipient which could be due to multiple causes but I want to have a safe path for clients to get back the p2pk ecash that was never redeemed by the recipient freelancer.

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calle 5mo ago

Sounds like p2pk with a timelocked refund path could be useful!

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Rob Woodgate 5mo ago

Take a look at Cashu NutLock as an example of tokens with refund timelock.

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Rob Woodgate 5mo ago

πŸ₯œσ …“σ …‘σ …£σ …˜σ …₯σ „²σ …Ÿσ „’σ „Άσ …€σ …•σ „³σ „Ίσ …Ÿσ …”σ „Έσ …‚σ …§σ …“σ …ͺσ …Ÿσ …¦σ „Όσ „’σ „‘σ … σ …’σ …žσ …σ …₯σ …’σ …‡σ …œσ …₯σ …‘σ …‡σ „Ίσ … σ …”σ „Έσ „½σ …₯σ …‰σ „’σ „Άσ …ͺσ …‘σ „³σ „©σ „³σ …‘σ …ˆσ …‚σ …šσ …’σ „’σ …œσ …₯σ …‰σ …ˆσ …†σ …šσ …“σ „’σ „Άσ „ σ …‰σ …ˆσ …ƒσ „²σ …Ÿσ …σ „Άσ … σ …ƒσ „±σ „²σ …σ „²σ …†σ „΄σ …§σ …ƒσ ……σ „Άσ „·σ …‰σ …ˆσ „³σ „΄σ … σ „·σ „Άσ …˜σ „±σ …‡σ „Άσ …ͺσ …•σ …σ „΅σ ……σ …‡σ …©σ „Ίσ …σ „½σ …œσ „²σ „Όσ „Ήσ …™σ …¨σ „§σ „Ήσ …σ „₯σ …¦σ …’σ …σ „Ύσ …œσ „Ήσ …šσ …Ÿσ …™σ „½σ …ͺσ „Ήσ „ σ …‰σ …ͺσ …‰σ „₯σ …‰σ …„σ …œσ …™σ „Ύσ …‡σ „Ήσ „ σ …‰σ …ͺσ ……σ „£σ …Šσ …šσ …”σ …σ …‰σ „’σ „Άσ …œσ „Ώσ „΄σ …—σ „ σ „Ώσ „·σ ……σ „€σ „Ύσ …σ …σ „ σ „Ύσ „’σ …σ „ σ …Šσ „΄σ ……σ „‘σ …Šσ …„σ …“σ „£σ „Ύσ …ͺσ „Ίσ …σ „½σ „·σ …σ „€σ …Šσ …σ ……σ „ σ „½σ …σ …σ …§σ …Šσ …šσ …‚σ …œσ „Ύσ …ͺσ …—σ „‘σ „½σ …šσ „±σ „ σ „Ύσ …ͺσ …‰σ „‘σ …Šσ …ƒσ „Ήσ …£σ „Ήσ …σ …‚σ …˜σ …”σ „·σ „΅σ …™σ „Ώσ …™σ „Ήσ …§σ „½σ …σ …σ …§σ „Ύσ „·σ …†σ …šσ …Šσ …šσ „½σ …ͺσ …‰σ …„σ „½σ …§σ „½σ „’σ „΅σ „‘σ „Ώσ …„σ …—σ „‘σ „½σ …σ …Šσ …›σ …‰σ …šσ …‰σ „€σ „½σ …‡σ …†σ …›σ „Ώσ „·σ „Ήσ „ σ „½σ …„σ „Ήσ …©σ „½σ „΄σ „Άσ …™σ …‰σ …„σ …—σ „‘σ …Šσ „΄σ …˜σ …›σ „½σ …šσ „΅σ „₯σ „Ώσ …‡σ „Άσ …œσ …‰σ …ͺσ …“σ …ͺσ …‰σ „’σ „Ήσ „’σ „½σ …šσ …‰σ „€σ „½σ …‡σ …σ „’σ „½σ …σ „Άσ …˜σ „Ώσ …„σ „±σ …™σ „Όσ „³σ „Ίσ „ σ …‰σ …‡σ …”σ …ͺσ „Ήσ …šσ … σ …’σ …‡σ …©σ „Ίσ …£σ …’σ „’σ „Ύσ …’σ …”σ „·σ …œσ …€σ …Šσ …ƒσ „Ήσ …£σ „Ήσ …šσ „΅σ „£σ „Ύσ …„σ „½σ „ σ „Ώσ „΄σ …σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ „±σ …™σ …ˆσ …ƒσ …¨σ …’σ „Ήσ …žσ „Ίσ …œσ …Šσ …žσ …†σ …₯σ …Šσ „³σ „Ήσ …£σ „Ήσ …šσ „±σ …©σ …‰σ „’σ …†σ …šσ „½σ „·σ …‰σ „ σ „Ύσ „·σ …σ …§σ …Šσ „΄σ …‰σ „ σ …Šσ „΄σ …Šσ …›σ „Ώσ …‡σ …σ „£σ …‰σ …„σ „Άσ …šσ „Ώσ „΄σ …‚σ …šσ „½σ …ͺσ „½σ …§σ …Šσ …šσ ……σ „ σ „Ύσ …šσ …”σ …œσ „Ύσ …ͺσ ……σ …©σ …‰σ „’σ „½σ „€σ …‰σ …šσ „±σ „’σ „Ύσ …‡σ …‰σ „£σ „½σ …šσ „²σ …œσ „Ώσ „΄σ …“σ „ σ …‰σ …„σ „²σ …™σ …Šσ …‡σ …σ …¨σ …‰σ …ͺσ ……σ „ σ „½σ …„σ …Šσ …›σ „½σ …™σ „Ίσ …”σ …ˆσ …ˆσ „‘σ …”σ …‰σ …‡σ „Ύσ …‰σ „Ήσ …σ „½σ …—σ …‘σ …”σ …’σ …›σ „£σ …“σ …‡σ …€σ „§σ …’σ …σ „Όσ …ͺσ „½σ …¦σ „²σ „»σ …‘σ …†σ …†σ „₯σ …‰σ „Όσ „§σ …–σ „‘σ …σ „³σ …—σ …†σ „€σ „Ώσ „΄σ „Ύσ …†σ …‰σ „§σ …¨σ ……σ „©σ …§σ „’σ „Άσ …›σ …Ÿσ „’σ „Άσ …œσ …‡σ „³σ „²σ „Ήσ „΄σ …—σ „Ώσ …ˆσ „ σ „Όσ „»σ …‰σ …‘σ „₯σ „ σ …’σ …₯σ …§σ …€σ …£σ „»σ ……σ „Άσ …™σ „½σ ……σ „΅σ „Ώσ „Ήσ …”σ …™σ …€σ „©σ …§σ „±σ …‘σ …‚σ …šσ …›σ …£σ …σ …¨σ …“σ „Ήσ „Ήσ …σ „Άσ …ͺσ …‡σ „³σ „³σ ……σ …€σ „·σ „Ύσ …†σ „£σ …›σ …šσ „±σ „Έσ …σ …™σ …Šσ …†σ …‘σ …‚σ …€σ …€σ „‘σ „Άσ „Έσ …„σ „€σ …σ …ͺσ „‘σ „ σ „Ήσ …¨σ „·σ „Άσ „¦σ „³σ „¦σ „Έσ …žσ …•σ …Ÿσ …—σ …¦σ …ˆσ „΅σ …‡σ „Άσ …©σ …‡σ „³σ „²σ „»σ „’σ …’σ …©σ „€σ …σ …’σ …Šσ …‚σ …£σ …—σ …˜σ …‚σ …žσ …—σ …σ …™σ …Ÿσ …„σ …—σ …šσ …“σ …σ …ƒσ „Ήσ „Ώσ …€σ …–σ …§σ „σ …ˆσ …˜σ …σ „₯σ …‘σ …—σ „£σ „²σ „§σ „¨σ …„σ …ƒσ …‘σ …‚σ …˜σ …‰σ …σ …‚σ …˜σ …“σ „£σ …›σ „²σ „Άσ „Άσ …£σ …™σ ……σ „΄σ „Ίσ …σ …ƒσ …©σ „Ήσ …£σ …•σ …©σ „Ίσ …₯σ …’σ „’σ „₯σ …šσ …Šσ …ƒσ „Ήσ „¦σ „Ήσ …šσ …—σ „’σ „½σ …„σ „Ήσ „ σ …Šσ …σ ……σ „‘σ „Ώσ …‡σ …‰σ „€σ „Ώσ …‡σ „΅σ „€σ „Ύσ …‡σ ……σ „₯σ „Ώσ „΄σ „½σ …§σ „Ύσ „΄σ …Šσ …˜σ „½σ …ͺσ „±σ …ͺσ „Ύσ …„σ …œσ …šσ „Ύσ …šσ ……σ „₯σ „Ώσ „·σ „΅σ „£σ „Ώσ …„σ „Ίσ …˜σ …Šσ „·σ …‰σ „’σ …Šσ „΄σ …“σ „£σ …Šσ …‡σ ……σ …©σ …Šσ …σ …σ „€σ …‰σ …‡σ „΅σ …©σ …Šσ …‡σ ……σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ …‚σ …›σ „Ύσ …ͺσ ……σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ „½σ …™σ „Όσ „³σ „Ίσ …›σ …‰σ …ˆσ …‚σ …˜σ „Ήσ …šσ …Ÿσ …™σ „½σ „΄σ „Ίσ …›σ „½σ „΄σ …‚σ …œσ …‰σ „’σ …‰σ …ͺσ „½σ „’σ „΅σ …ͺσ „½σ „΄σ „Ύσ …˜σ „Ύσ …„σ …›σ „€σ „Ύσ …„σ „Ίσ …σ …Šσ „·σ „Ήσ „’σ „Ώσ „΄σ „Άσ …œσ …Šσ „΄σ …˜σ …™σ „Ύσ „΄σ „΅σ …©σ „½σ …šσ „±σ …¨σ …‰σ …σ „΅σ „€σ „Ύσ …‡σ …σ „€σ …Šσ „΄σ „Ήσ …¨σ „Ώσ …„σ …œσ …˜σ …Šσ …‡σ „½σ „£σ „½σ „’σ „Ύσ …™σ „Ύσ …šσ „Ήσ „’σ „Ώσ „΄σ „Άσ …›σ „Ύσ …šσ „Ίσ …˜σ …‰σ …„σ …›σ …§σ „Ήσ …™σ …§σ …™σ …”σ „·σ „Άσ …žσ …“σ …©σ „Ήσ „¦σ …‡σ „‘σ …£σ …™σ …’σ „·σ „©σ …šσ …‘σ „£σ …‚σ … σ …’σ …‡σ ……σ …™σ „Όσ „³σ „Ήσ …¨σ „Ύσ …ͺσ ……σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ …—σ „ σ „½σ …ͺσ …σ …§σ „Ήσ …œσ „ σ …£σ …‡σ …©σ „Ίσ …©σ …Šσ …‡σ …Šσ „‘σ …’σ …σ …σ …™σ „Όσ „³σ „Ήσ …§σ „½σ …σ „Ύσ …œσ …‰σ …ͺσ „²σ …σ „Ύσ „΄σ …‚σ …›σ „½σ „·σ …σ „’σ „Ύσ „·σ …σ „’σ …Šσ „΄σ …œσ …›σ „Ύσ „’σ „΅σ …¨σ …‰σ …ͺσ …—σ „ σ …‰σ …ͺσ „½σ …ͺσ „½σ „·σ …‰σ „‘σ „Ύσ „΄σ …‰σ „£σ …Šσ …„σ …“σ „‘σ „½σ …σ „Ύσ …šσ „Ώσ „·σ „Ήσ …§σ „Ύσ …šσ …†σ …σ „Ύσ …ͺσ „Ήσ …§σ …Šσ …„σ …—σ „£σ „Ύσ „·σ „΅σ …§σ …‰σ …σ …†σ …›σ „½σ …‡σ „½σ „‘σ „Ύσ „΄σ „΅σ „’σ …Šσ „΄σ „Ήσ …™σ …ˆσ …†σ „‘σ „©σ …ˆσ …‡σ „Άσ …šσ …‡σ „³σ „΅σ „΄σ …Ÿσ …’σ …σ „Ύσ …‚σ …₯󠄝󠅓󠄨󠅃󠅦󠅒σ „₯σ „¨σ „¨σ …–σ …›σ „Ύσ „©σ …§σ „΅σ …žσ ……σ „Άσ …žσ …ͺσ „σ „»σ „Ώσ …ƒσ „Ώσ … σ …œσ …‰σ „Ύσ …œσ „Ήσ …›σ …Ÿσ …σ …“σ „‘σ „₯σ …˜σ …Šσ „»σ „Ύσ …˜σ …Šσ …†σ …—σ …—σ …’σ …†σ …‘σ „‘σ …˜σ …€σ …‰σ „Έσ „΅σ …•σ …¦σ „Άσ …œσ …¦σ …§σ …©σ …§σ „Ίσ …šσ …σ …šσ … σ …•σ …‡σ …˜σ …Šσ …ˆσ …σ …Šσ …‰σ …—σ „Ίσ „‘σ …“σ …σ „Άσ „³σ …£σ „»σ „’σ „³σ „Ήσ „‘σ …˜σ …“σ „‘σ …—σ …—σ …σ …¨σ …†σ …˜σ „Ίσ …„σ „Όσ „‘σ …€σ …“σ „Άσ „Ώσ „Έσ „Έσ „Ήσ „‘σ „₯σ „·σ …–σ „₯σ …‰σ … σ …€σ „₯σ …—σ …£σ …˜σ „±σ …₯σ „©σ …ƒσ …§σ …•σ …Ÿσ „§σ „©σ …£σ „©σ …¨σ …₯σ …—σ …€σ „Ίσ …˜σ …“σ …œσ …—σ …—σ „Ύσ …ͺσ …šσ „³σ …—σ …‚σ „΄σ „¦σ …žσ …€σ „‘σ …’σ …™σ …ˆσ …Šσ „’σ „²σ …¦σ …σ …™σ „Ίσ „£σ „Ίσ …žσ „Άσ …Ÿσ „³σ „΅σ „½σ „¦σ „Ήσ …σ …σ „΄σ „¨σ …ͺσ „¦σ …ƒσ …•σ …šσ …™σ …•σ „·σ …›σ …‰σ …‡σ „΅σ …σ …‰σ …ˆσ „Ύσ „₯σ „±σ …‚σ …‚σ …’σ „Ήσ …œσ „±σ …©σ ……σ „΅σ …£σ …™σ „Όσ „Έσ …£σ …™σ …’σ …σ „©σ …₯σ …‰σ „’σ ……σ …™σ „Ώσ …™σ „Ήσ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ …σ …©σ …Šσ …‡σ „΅σ „€σ …Šσ „΄σ „Ίσ …œσ „½σ „΄σ …”σ …˜σ …Šσ „·σ „΅σ „ σ „½σ …šσ …Šσ …™σ …‰σ „’σ „Ήσ „₯σ „Ώσ …‡σ „Ήσ …¨σ „Ώσ …‡σ „½σ „£σ …Šσ …šσ …“σ „€σ „Ύσ …„σ „±σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ „±σ „₯σ …‰σ …„σ „Άσ …™σ „Ώσ „·σ …σ „£σ „Ώσ „΄σ „Άσ …šσ „Ύσ „΄σ …—σ „€σ „Ώσ …„σ „Άσ …œσ „½σ „΄σ …‚σ …šσ „½σ „΄σ …›σ …ͺσ „Ώσ „΄σ „Ύσ …œσ „½σ …„σ …†σ …›σ „Ήσ …™σ …§σ …™σ …Šσ „·σ „Άσ „ σ …‰σ …ƒσ „Ήσ „¦σ „Ήσ …šσ „±σ …©σ …Šσ „΄σ „±σ „ σ …Šσ …‡σ „Ύσ …σ „½σ …ͺσ „Ύσ …˜σ „½σ …ͺσ „±σ …ͺσ …‰σ …„σ ……σ „₯σ „Ώσ „΄σ ……σ …©σ …Šσ …σ …‚σ …™σ „Ύσ …šσ …—σ …¨σ …Šσ …‡σ …σ „€σ …‰σ …šσ …σ …¨σ „½σ …šσ „Ήσ …§σ „½σ …‡σ „Ίσ …˜σ „Ώσ „΄σ …†σ …›σ „Ώσ „·σ …σ …©σ „½σ …„σ …›σ „₯σ …‰σ …‡σ …†σ …šσ „Ύσ …ͺσ „Ύσ …šσ …‰σ …šσ …‰σ …©σ „Ύσ …šσ …—σ …¨σ …Šσ „΄σ …‰σ …©σ …‰σ …‡σ „΅σ „₯σ „½σ „³σ „Ήσ …£σ „Ήσ …žσ …‚σ …˜σ …Šσ „£σ „½σ …™σ „Ώσ …œσ …€σ …’σ „Ήσ …σ …¨σ …¦σ …‰σ „’σ …€σ „ σ …‘σ …‡σ „‘σ …œσ „Ήσ …™σ …§σ …™σ „½σ …„σ …“σ „‘σ „½σ …ͺ󠅁󠄀󠄾󠄴󠄽󠄠󠄽󠄳󠄺󠅔󠄼󠄢󠅣󠅙󠅓󠅝󠅆󠅝󠅔󠅇σ „₯σ …›σ „Ήσ …™σ …§σ …™σ „½σ „΄σ „Ίσ …šσ …Šσ …‡σ „½σ …§σ …Šσ …šσ …σ „ σ …Šσ „΄σ „²σ …›σ „Ύσ …šσ …‚σ …›σ „Ύσ …σ …σ „₯σ …Šσ „΄σ …”σ …˜σ „½σ …‡σ „½σ „€σ „Ύσ „·σ „½σ …ͺσ „½σ …ͺσ „²σ …σ „Ύσ …„σ …σ „’σ „Ύσ „’σ ……σ „£σ „Ύσ …„σ „Ίσ …šσ …‰σ …ͺσ …˜σ …™σ „½σ „΄σ …‰σ „‘σ …Šσ …šσ …“σ …©σ „½σ „·σ ……σ „€σ „Ύσ …ͺσ …‚σ …˜σ „½σ „·σ „Ίσ …œσ …Šσ „΄σ „Άσ …šσ „Ύσ …„σ …σ …¨σ „Ύσ …σ …σ …©σ „Ήσ …œσ „‘σ …”σ …–σ …†σ „‘σ …˜σ …‰σ „‘σ …—σ …˜σ „±σ „‘σ „½σ …©σ …₯σ „Ώσ „Άσ „Ώσ …—σ … σ „Άσ …Šσ …žσ …–σ …„σ …œσ „Ίσ …“σ …σ „³σ …–σ „₯󠄡󠅓󠄧󠅏󠅂σ …₯σ „§σ …©σ …‘σ …˜σ …†σ „ σ …„σ …’σ „₯σ …’σ …Ÿσ „Έσ „΅σ …ˆσ …σ …€σ …‰σ …‡σ …ƒσ …šσ …‰σ …‡σ …†σ …‰σ „Ήσ „Ήσ „©σ …‰σ …€σ …Šσ …—σ „‘σ …†σ …ͺσ …§σ „€σ …•σ „£σ „¨σ „΅σ „σ ……σ …¨σ „΅σ „’σ „΅σ „¦σ …€σ …§σ „Ίσ „€σ …‘σ …‘σ …€σ …•σ „Έσ …€σ „Άσ …˜σ „Έσ …‘σ …”σ …„σ …ˆσ „§σ …‡σ „Ώσ …£σ …‰σ …ˆσ „Ύσ …‰σ „Ήσ „²σ „³σ „»σ „Όσ „€σ …‚σ …žσ „₯σ „§σ …¨σ …£σ …†σ …žσ „±σ „»σ …‚σ „¨σ „½σ „©σ „¨σ „ σ „Έσ „’σ …‘σ „ σ …„σ …•σ …—σ …‚σ …Ÿσ „»σ …‡σ ……σ …ˆσ … σ „Ήσ „₯σ „₯σ …σ „Άσ …–σ „§σ …‘σ …‰σ …ˆσ „Ίσ …‰σ „Ήσ „΄σ „€σ „Ύσ …•σ „Ίσ …σ „‘σ …‘σ …’σ …›σ „₯σ …“σ „Άσ „½σ …’σ …€σ … σ …€σ …€σ …€σ …¨σ „Άσ …–σ „±σ „Έσ …‚σ „»σ „¨σ …‘σ „·σ …™σ …’σ „Έσ „³σ …œσ „»σ ……σ „€σ „₯σ …œσ „²σ …†σ …