What's more private
A transaction that leaves a public on-chain print, but obfuscated with ring signatures
Or a transaction that leaves no public trace at all and doesn't use a chain?
Because many noobs here seem to be confused by this very obvious answer
Your post isn't very clear about what coins you're referring to
Ain't about coins it's about tech/architecture
Depends on what the off chain solution is.
whats more private
a network thats been used and refined for years and has been tested and proven privacy assurances
a network thats a complicated hodgepodge of different impletations trying to work together, that isn't battle tested and wasn't designed for privacy
because many experienced people seem to be confused by this obvious answer
its true that an L2 *can* be more private than a blockchain
come back when bolt12 invoices are the default and we'll talk
Don't even need bolt12 we already have blind routing in bolt11 and lsp that prevent you from seeing the receiver node
unfortunately this is not adequate
https://dl.acm.org/doi/fullHtml/10.1145/3465481.3465761#BibPLXBIB0027
Isn't battle tested? Lightning already does more transactions daily than Monero lol. Just on nostr alone it almost does
Wasn't designed for privacy? So it's just happenstance we have private channels and perfect sender privacy, a happy accident lol
*unannounced* channels
that you cant receive to.
and every few months a paper is published about new channel probing methods
come on
you're confirmation bias is showing
also bro
like 90% of that activity is through custodians and has ZERO privacy
pretty sure that's not the narrative you want to push
Where do you get this number? On nostr, zaps are public so people use custodians for the web server. There is an opposite expectation of privacy, people are trying to show off their tips.
Lightning has 15k known nodes (many more unknown) and there isn't even a way to know how many transactions are happening (because it has excellent privacy)
Anyone with a threat model that requires privacy can easily get it
source:
nostr:note1t0ucw7t27mqnahjfhzq82js45q96qrn65a3gxvn88wqq3ypusr4q89n22x
π
you're demonstrating a misunderstanding of what privacy is.
not having visibility into the network/knowing how many txs are happening does NOT mean that an end user can transact privately.
and its exactly because end users cant validate their own privacy assurances that people/orgs with high threat models (DNMs) DONT use LN
and no, bisq and robosats are not dnms
Mathematical Proof That the Lightning Network Cannot Be a Decentralized Bitcoin Scaling Solution
The network has evolved a lot in the 8 years since this article was written lol
And now we have more nodes than Monero, rip
You probably didn't read the article, neither understand the arguments exposed there
I did, thanks for wasting my time, it's completely retarded
When XMR peeps on #nostr transacting in #bitcoin is the funny part.
when you're *not* a religious zealot you can do all kinds of cool shit
I receive and send fat Monero tips all the time on Nostr but obviously no one would know that
Also:
Cool π
Article from August 2023
Why Most Lightning Users Opt For Custodial Wallets
https://thebitcoinmanual.com/articles/ln-users-custodial-wallets/
Another retarded article.
Why most users who want public zaps on nostr use custodians would be more accurate
Please read this nonsense before you send it please
Lmao. Monero bros get rekt.
The most relevant part of the article:
BECAUSE ITS FOR NOSTR ZAPS THAT REQUIRE A WEB SERVER TO WORK
THIS IS NOT A REPRESENTATION OF ALL LIGHTNING USERS OR THE NETWORK, IT IS A REPRESENTATION OF NOSTR ZAPS, A SMALL USE CASE
I swear you guys don't think
Did you even read this article? The author doesn't even know how the network works lmfao
Talking about loaning out money? There are no loans. Can't make payments because you need too many channels?
Incoherent nonsense
How would you know daily transactions if it's so super duper private though? π€
We don't know, we only know nostr zaps that are meant to be public
So part of the LN network is completely exposed to the public. Not sure how that makes it's privacy better.
No, nostr is public, not lightning. Nostr zap notes are not proofs of payment they are just signed notes from an npub.
Nostr and lightning networks are not coupled, it's not "part of the network"
Seems like a distinction without an actual differenece. You're seeing who paid whom and the amounts paid for the most part. Couple that with centralized servers for vast majority using custodial wallets and now you have targets to go actually find out.
I only care about how much parrhesia I need to move away from the surveillance state. Whichever system minimizes this, that is what I will do.
A transaction that uses FCMPs++, and also enables channel opens and closes, clearly. Everyone already knows this answer
The more private one is when all your transactions take place on LN custodians like Wallet of Satoshi servers that only them, hackers, and any three letter agency can see
(and the everyone else when a databreach happens)
Thankfully they don't, only my public nostr zaps
Congratulations on being the 1% of LN users
That begs the question: Why aren't you using a non-custodial wallet for zaps if it's so easy to do? Why use a custodial wallet at all?
Zaps are not easy to do because they need a webserver and relay configuration.
Just regular non custody to make private payments is easy tho
That's exactly why most LN users aren't using it the super private way you guys are pretending they do
Monero is much better for the vast majority of new users seeking non-custodial private transactions
