Good afternoon y’all, Monero will never be anything more than a footnote to Bitcoin. Never.
Have a great day!
Discussion
Do you know what Monero enjoyers never pick on? A book on Austrian Economics.
Says the SoV maxis 🙄
https://mises.org/mises-wire/why-fungibility-important-understanding-money-and-crypto
I’m not a store of value maximalist, I’m a monetary maximalist, not to be confused with the simps for Saylor, SBR et al. You apparently read Mises, Rothbard and Menger like the Devil reads the Bible because none of their writings has any relevance to Monero.
You're a minority. Good to be proven wrong.
Well I’m pretty sure we’re more than the Monero bros.
aside from the above refutation of SoV-only from the Austrians
and that Bitcoin isn't fungible, but monero is
I'll also point out that Mises specifically said that the number of monetary units *didn't matter*. Just that the production of them should be left to the market.
Theres nothing Austrian about "21M only"
yeah we all read mises, hayek, rothbard, and/or hoppe
Sure you are.
the only reason why you are being hostile is that bitcoin turned into a thing where if anyone buys something other than bitcoin, we're taking food directly out of your mouth. we're supposed to buy bitcoin after you do or you'll get mad.
Why is that? Basically any Bitcoin OG I know also owns Monero.
The primary reason is I can run a bitcoin node and go into it and type “gettxoutsetinfo” and see the state of the entirety of the current supply of the system.
Then I can verify the schedule for the entirety of the remainder of the supply issuance.
Then I can open a lightning channel and transact instant, near-free, self-sovereignly, with better privacy than Monero can offer.
100% Bitcoin nativity, 100% verification of my money’s properties, 100% sovereign, 100% private.
Monero can’t offer this, and never will.
LN and ecash will come to Monero.
You can audit coins and check supply just as you would with BTC with a couple more mathematic assumptions.
Looking at the track record should tell you something. Monero implemented almost all Bitcoin dev inventions like...
Stealth addresses, ring CTs, p2p mining pools, dandelion and recently a p2p DEX. Guess what. It has outpaced Bisq (that ironically still is mostly XMR transactions) after not even one year vs Bisq's > 10 years.
LN has different privacy assumptions than Monero. I personally use both, but prefer to store my wealth in a private way.
>The primary reason is ...
>... I can see the state of the entirety of the current supply of the system
you can do that with Monero. the command you are looking for is `print_coinbase_tx_sum` on the monero node
>Then I can verify the schedule for the entirety of the remainder of the supply issuance
you can know the supply of monero for any date in the future. the block reward will remain the same forever.
>Then I can open a lightning channel and transact instant, near-free, self-sovereignly
study fcmp
in sumary, Monero can offer all of this, while being private and fungible at the protocol level, and maintaining the security of the system for any point in time in the future with tail emission, and also being scalable to demand with dynamic blocks while also limiting blocks to be small initially. Bitcoin can't offer this, and never will.
lmao no it can’t, these are not 1:1 and you pretending like they are is why I’ll never have any respect for you people
strange you cant give a actual rebuttal beyond "lol no you're wrong"
print_coinbase_tx_sum gives a fundamentally different and lesser picture of the network state than gettxoutsetinfo.
that’s a full rebuttal.
would love to hear why that’s not correct!
would be better to say
"summing the coinbase txs doesnt guarantee there hasnt been a undetected inflation bug. gettxsetoutinfo does."
because that explains what the "lesser" picture is.
but its not the whole story,
because we can manually verify that the txs on a block dont create new coins
and people do.
a la https://www.moneroinflation.com/
so.
while everyone makes decisions about what they're comfortable with
there's no reason to believe monero supply guarantees aren't totally solid.
So you agree with me, appreciate it!
Thank you also for pointing out that you have to trust a third party to verify the full txoutset against inflation bugs, or be an extremely sophisticated developer who can do it themselves.
Sounds complicated. You are right, I (and the rest of the world), will go with Bitcoin and 'gettxoutsetinfo' instead. Much simpler.
luckily I don’t have to convince you, you are all impoverishing yourselves into irrelevance!
see ya in 10 years if you want to revisit and learn something about money!
>you are all impoverishing yourselves
Monero is gaining value versus BTC
>luckily I don’t have to convince you
me neither, so far the black markets have spoken, and I don't have time to convince anyone...
>see ya in 10 years if you want to revisit and learn something about money!
I'll definitely keep this saved to ping back in 10 years
Monero had a new all time low back in November 2024. No new highs since 2017. This is abysmal looking chart. I call this being delusional, but you do you.
That is not the full chart, the real one goes back to 2014 and the all time low was on december 2014. Not making a new all time low in all of its history means that bitcoin was never able to break a new high in Monero terms, and started falling again. Now that's the chart you should be worried about.
We are also talking about an asset that is loved by governments and corporations, traded everywhere, of very easy access, slowly becoming a strategic reserve of multiple nations and states, has billionaires with large bags to pump up the price, and just recently in this timeframe broke the mark of 100k USD.
The other asset in comparison has been hated, banished, delisted and supressed, is slowly becoming illegal across the world, a new EU law just passed making it illegal, and has to rely on its own community built P2P markets in order to survive
The fact that Monero is beating Bitcoin in all these conditions combined, is astonishing. It shows the true power of freedom, privacy, and decentralization. I'd still rather stay on the side of agorism and free market economics.
This sounds exactly like what media and tradfi were saying about Bitcoin in it's niche darknet market days.
Now Monero owns those markets.
Monero delisted from most exchanges.
Europe now banning privacy coins.
3,520 BTC hacker immediately ran to Monero.
Tom Woods, Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, Dan Bilzerian talking about Monero.
Monero notoriety just continues to grow.
Streisand effect really is a bitch. I wouldn't be so quick to count that out.
So your counter-argument to Monero being niche is that it has solidified in niche markets?
"Bigger than ever" and yet a pimple on an ant's ass in volume and market compared to Bitcoin, which can be used in a more private way than Monero with LN.
I really am trying to help people see that there is no growth against the king coming.
No, my counter argument is it's being used in one of the most adversarial environments and free markets on the planet. Every white market transaction is permissioned - which goes against the entire point of Bitcoin.
And the irony that you're parroting the same thing as legacy media and tradfi did about Bitcoin.
How much of that almighty volume is made through permissioned white market exchanges and kept there? Sounds like tradfi with extra steps.
LN is cool for smaller transactions, but how much volume can it do? Even if the hacker did everything properly to remain private on LN, it wouldn't be possible to push that much money into it on any sane timescale. And even if you somehow could, you wouldn't want to hold that much money on Lightning anyway.
this is the definition of niche loserism syndrome and I hope you find your cure before it’s too late.
go live as an outcast of society! you will be so free!
the rest of us will keep living like normal human beings who like to network and have trust, transparency, and the option of privacy by default if we choose.
You act like the average joe is actively using or thinking about Bitcoin in their daily lives 😂
Vast majority of the world prefers using stablecoins over Bitcoin.
We're all in a bubble here buddy it's just a matter of how niche (and the relevancy of that niche towards its value prop)
Bitcoin is a top ten asset globally, more valuable than JP Morgan and Visa combined.
Try again!
And how much of that is non-custodial and not on permissioned markets? Irrelevant for Bitcoins value prop.
You do not understand bitcoin's value prop.
and here we have a perfect specimen of a clueless bitcoin maxi who excuses custodial usage because he thinks it's the path to riches
the first rule of bitcoin used to be "not your keys, not your coins." then it got scratched off and became "never sell your bitcoin." these people are the reason why.
May his gold chains rest lightly upon him
"Bitcoin is designed to operate without permission from any authority. Its value proposition is entirely based on this property."
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Permissionless-Principle
😂 libbitcoin
Odd. I see deflection, but don't see you refuting the claim. Maybe it's because you can't.