Saying it's not true doesn't stop it from being true
Truth is based on reality, not your imagination
Discussion
Facts don’t care about your feelings. Stop spreading disinformation. It is still bitcoin and it settles on my node and on-chain. You can use your argument for e-cash. But not self custody lightning. Have a great day.
You stop spreading disinformation
Bitcoin settles on chain, lightning doesn't until it stops being lightning by being converted into actual Bitcoin
You call these things "off chain" and "on chain" instead of fake and real, but then you also support businesses that claim to accept Bitcoin while restricting it to lightning, so clearly I'm right to replace your terms with "fake" and "real"
You would do yourself a big favor to read the paper. It’s still bitcoin. You still can’t print it out of thin air. It still has to exist as a locked up UTXO. It’s bitcoin for fucks sake. 🤦♂️
So if I add the statement "it's still Bitcoin" to the facts that you can't print doggie coin out of thin air and it has to exist as a locked up UTXO, and I run a restaurant that makes headlines for starting to accept Bitcoin but we use dogecoin-only Bitcoin wallets, you're fine with that?
Or are you only OK with it when it's an asset with no proof of work blockchain, no underlying value, and no better of market performance than the original Bitcoin?
Haha what?! Now you’re just mixing all kinds of bizarre messages. Seriously, Take a step back and do some reading.
I will probably read what you type as long as it's in my inbox and seems to be written by you, so that I can respond.
I am not interested in reading random shit about the lightning protocol.
Smoke more and re-read if you couldn't comprehend.
Or quit weed entirely if you can't comprehend English as a weed user
There's zero reason I would read the paper, find a paper worth my time about a topic worth my time if you want me to read it
There we have it. He Doesn’t want to be accountable. Who sold you on your original take? Really man you need to Research your shit.
I don't need to be sold on this take, that's why I'm the main one that keeps repeating it while others haven't caught on.
I've done more than enough research. It doesn't take more than a few minutes to figure out that lightning isn't Bitcoin. I've been reading about this shit since before lightning existed, probably longer than you.
If you’re being pedantic about it maybe. Bitcoin on lightning is Bitcoin; however, if you want to be a tool about it you can technically put other shitcoins on the Lightning network. Therefore Lightning in and of itself isn’t Bitcoin it’s a protocol and network. Bitcoin passed over the Lightning Network is still final settled and real Bitcoin.
Bitcoin passed over the lightning network is Bitcoin, and gold transferred with an IOU is gold.
Passing Bitcoin through the lightning network doesn't make lightning into Bitcoin, and letting someone redeem an IOU for gold doesn't ACTUALLY turn the IOU into gold.
Since you think it’s just a shitcoin. I’ll happily settle it on my node.
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Now your argument is "if you really believe it's a shitcoin, you should want to convert your hard money into it and give it to me, because everyone knows any shitcoin should have all money converted into it and given to me."
I really can't tell if you need to smoke more weed or less. Your brain isn't working.
Cool. Back to insults. Everything degrades to that with you. Keep believing what you want about Bitcoin over lightning just don’t confuse the new people. And research for yourself rather than believe what someone told you. Clearly that person set you off on the wrong path.
I just dissected your argument and you reply pretending I did nothing but insult you
Then you pretend the same accusation always applies with me (when it almost never does)
Then you pretend I seem to have gotten my views from someone else when I'm clearly the leading person on this topic
Any more gaslighting attempts for me or are you starting to notice you're hurting yourself more than me?
Just trying to help the new people not take the wrong path. It’s okay to be wrong. 🫡
Nope. You are trying to misguide new people and at the same time passive aggressively trying to gaslight me.
Care to continue, or are you starting to notice you're hurting yourself more than me?
It's obvious you're not going to stop bullshitting in this conversation, you're set on just trying to gaslight me until your tantrum wears off
Your “argument” is a false equivalence. Bitcoin payments are still settled on node in real time over Lightning. I fail to see how you think this is paper gold? 🤷♂️
There is no false equivalence. You can pretend there is, but I will continue to explain how there is not. Perhaps you should go into more detail about this delusional "false equivalence" idea so I can go into detail about how you're wrong.
Lightning payments are still not Bitcoin payments, and Bitcoin doesn't work "in real time" if by that you mean instantly.
It's not paper gold, it's lightning. It's equivalent to paper gold because in both cases it's an attempt to represent the value of an underlying asset with more speed and efficiency than transporting the underlying asset itself, and in both cases, the proponents use it to control sheep (almost everyone) by employing gaslighting and other manipulative psychological techniques to try to brainwash people into viewing the connection as a sacred link upheld by the laws of god and nature, making the representation the same as the thing itself.
For the love. This is a bold face lie or ignorance.
“Lightning payments are still not Bitcoin payments, and Bitcoin doesn't work "in real time"”
If Bitcoin is sent. Over lightning. To my node. It’s there. No one can take it. No one can revert the transaction. It’s part of the 21million cap that can’t be inflated or printed.
How do you explain that this isn’t real? You’re not making sense.
And if I exchange an IOU for gold, the gold is there. No one can take it (without stealing, same as anything). The IOU "turns into" gold in this sense, but that's kinda poetic wording, not explicitly exactly true
Me saying "the IOU turns into gold" would be fine if I dealt in actual gold, but you should instantly be able to see how retarded it is when I say "the IOU is better than gold because it's gold but faster, therefore when I say I accept gold at my shop, I don't expect you to think I will actually accept gold you bring me, I expect you to understand that gold means IOUs"
The most insane part is the actual claim of accepting the underlying asset while not doing it
A shop retarded enough to accept paper and refuse gold is a classic
But I never heard of a shop retarded enough to say "we accept gold" when they didn't - that's new lightning cult retardation
Accepting bitcoin over lightning. Is accepting the asset. Not paper. This is where your paper gold argument falls apart. It’s not the same as accepting an IOU.
If you say you accept gold over paper, and that's accepting gold, not paper, I'll go along with it as long as you're actually dealing in gold, not paper. What you're saying would kind of make sense because we have figures of speech like "turning it into gold" by redeeming it, and if you actually do that, you have actual
gold.
I would wonder why you act so weird about it. It would seem kinda like a potential mental health issue I'd hope you'd outgrow. But it would be fair enough to respect the edgy viewpoint.
When you add NOT DEALING IN REAL GOLD, it falls apart.
I'm not gonna accept you saying "I accept gold but I'm not accepting your gold because it's not paper, and you can't blame me for the confusion because paper is gold."
At that point, I'm not going along with it.
This makes zero sense.
It makes 100% sense.
Your cognition is shutting down because you can't handle admitting you were wrong.
Ok 👌
That "passive aggressiveness" isn't helping your mental health
I’ll be sure to call a therapist 🫡
They probably can't really help. It still seems like you need to switch up how you handle weed. Either you're smoking so much it doesn't help your reading comprehension anymore, or you're using it too recreationally instead of using it to comprehend stuff.
Are you trying to say an invoice is an IOU? Bitcoin is still moving from Person A to Person B whether on-chain or through the Lightning network.
Bitcoin over lightning is not an IOU or Paper. The idea with paper gold is you don’t know if the paper has been over printed or if there is sufficient gold for what paper exists or where it exists. This just isn’t true with with Bitcoin over Lightning. It moves from point A to point B and it’s done.
A lightning transaction received in a custodial wallet is an IOU.
A lightning transaction sent with current technology is an IOU due to the inability to verify all the electronics and software in any network segment with 2 nodes in it (or probably even 1 node).
A volume of lightning transactions sent with similar, but more verifiable technology, would encourage custodial wallets, thus eliminating many real transactions and replacing them with IOUs, thus directly making those ones absolute IOUs, and indirectly making all the others relatively more IOU-like than actual Bitcoin transactions (which are also relatively IOU-like with current technology).
You're pretending lightning can't be "overprinted" like paper gold, when it's very easy to understand how it's possible and you've probably seen it happen firsthand. Cult brain does this to you.
Also, an essential difference that makes Bitcoin less IOU-like is there's actually a lot of evidence it can't be "overprinted" instead of obvious proof that it can.
I was very clear. My node. Self-custody. I own the channel. I own the keys. No IOU.
You’re changing your argument, or you are finally adding enough detail, that I’m starting to understand why you’re so confused.
I cannot verify that, so it's an IOU.
And I can verify that your statements are misplaced and cause harm, so it's a much worse IOU than Bitcoin, because Bitcoin only has the "can't be verified" part, not the "definitely insincere and causing harm" part.