Nostr Web Client

jleger2023 2y ago

FEEDBACK NEEDED:

Would you find this reminder too intrusive? It would disappear after the person sent a ⚡ and would not reappear for a certain period of time depending on the size of the ⚡ (for instance, if somebody gave the USD equivalent of $5 it would go away for 30 days). If you've already sent a ⚡ of whatever size, it won't show up at all until that time period elapsed.

I don't want it to be too intrusive, but I also want to remind people that my time and the hardware required to run NostrGram aren't free.

Since this is a viewpoint question, any ⚡ sent to this note in the first 30 minutes will be distributed among the people who reply in the first 30 minutes. 🙏 for your feedback.

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Discussion

Ian "nostr.naut.social" D 2y ago

It's an interesting approach. Worth a try

Sikto 2y ago

Personally, I wouldn’t like it.

jleger2023 2y ago

Ok. What about it don't you like? I'm looking for direction from the people who would see it to understand their perspectives.

Sikto 2y ago

I am aware of the work devs are putting in and also aware of how they need to support their infrastructure, and I have been contributing as much as I can. To me, I would find it a little condescending and patronizing. But, I’m also someone who values your work immensely and am already giving V4V.

jleger2023 2y ago

🙏 for your thoughts. I get that completely. Those who are already showing their support would never see it anyway, since NostrGram would sum up their ⚡ amounts and not display the box for a set period of time (e.g. for every X sats it won't display for Y amount of time). It's mostly for people who aren't prone to think like you do (which is the great majority of people) and need a nudge.

Sikto 2y ago

Yes, I don’t like nudges:) I always prefer a one time fee, versus a subscription, or a recurring reminder.

jleger2023 2y ago

The problem with a one-time fee is the server costs are recurring, not one time (though generally I agree with you).

kimiamania 2y ago

Is a backend required for nostrgram? Probably we can offload the static parts to static file hosting like Cloudflare pages to reduce some costs.

jleger2023 2y ago

Yes it uses a caching server and a web server so cannot be offloaded (though I already use CloudFlare which helps a lot with the web server load via compression and caching).

Sikto 2y ago

Yes, I meant more in general terms. Have you thought about having open books? Just spitballing here, but I have no idea what your costs of operating would be. I’m assuming many wouldn’t either. Maybe people would contribute more, if they knew the costs? Like a co-op kind of thing?

jleger2023 2y ago

That's certainly something to consider. Thanks!

Sikto 2y ago

Thank you!

matata 2y ago

no, wouldn't mind that at all

love to see it even

maybe change the color from time to time to avoid people automatically filtering it out their sight (this is what happens if a message is seen repeatedly, for me at least)

jleger2023 2y ago

Excellent point.

Jingle4la 2y ago

I think it's entirely reasonable and not at all intrusive. One is free to ignore it if one likes....and I don't grudge you putting it there as your efforts on nostrgram are hugely appreciated.

bot 2y ago

It can’t be dismissed unless you zap? What if I don’t have any zaps?

matata 2y ago

then you'll have to suffer seeing that bar forever 😈😹

bot 2y ago

😭 I get that there are a lot of crypto ppl here, but it shouldn’t be forced on everyone imo.

jleger2023 2y ago

If you've already contributed to the project then you wouldn't get the reminder.

matata 2y ago

how is it forced on like this?

you also see the lightning emoji under every post in most clients, do you feel that's forcing too?

Don't Believe The Vibe 🌱🍋🍊 2y ago

Goddamnit I saw it and felt forced to zap.

matata 2y ago

i get an error when trying to zap you, node down?

Don't Believe The Vibe 🌱🍋🍊 2y ago

Thanks for letting me know. Seems so, fixed it.

matata 2y ago

words made me do it

Don't Believe The Vibe 🌱🍋🍊 2y ago

👀🫂 The amount in the zap is

bot 2y ago

Nagging me with a thing that can’t be dismissed otherwise is sort of forcing it, yes.

I should also be able to disable zap stuff, but that’s not as intrusive on Damus.

matata 2y ago

hmm interesting pov

jleger2023 2y ago

Then the bar would remain. I'd think it's a small price to pay *if* you enjoy using the client but don't want to contribute. Alternatively I could provide some fiat way of supporting the project also.

Toxic Positivity 2y ago

Are you asking if I want to see more ads?

No, no I don’t.

jleger2023 2y ago

So you feel that reminding someone that the client requires a lot of work and significant costs is the equivalent to an "ad"? (Genuine question as I want to get this right.) How would you personally prefer to be reminded that it's not free? (With the understanding that if you don't need a reminder because you've already supported the project you won't see the box.)

Toxic Positivity 2y ago

I’d rather use a client that doesn’t annoy me about it.

jleger2023 2y ago

Ok, another honest question: have you donated to the NostrGram project yet? If not, how long have you been using it (if you're using it at all)? If you're not using it, have you donated to the client(s) you are using?

Toxic Positivity 2y ago

I will never pay money to a microblogging service when there are options available that don’t incentivize it. If every Nostr client degenerated into ebegging then I wouldn’t use Nostr. Find a VC or something.

jleger2023 2y ago

Thanks for your feedback.

Zyzz Brah 2y ago

Learned my lesson with that with Chudbuds

Running Man 2y ago

So this is what civil discourse looks like. Seems kinda grown up and stuff.

Lots of price discovery in progress.

bot 2y ago

I get that you need to pay for your expenses, but is it always there? What other options are there? I really think it should be dismissible.

Toxic Positivity 2y ago

Do what Alex Gleason did and work for Trump as your day job. He does all his Fedi/Nostr work afterhours.

jleger2023 2y ago

Are you saying you would have no intention of supporting the project so would prefer to just dismiss it? Just trying to understand.

bot 2y ago

Well, I don’t have any crypto so if you’re expecting zaps from me, don’t hold your breath.

But you’ve gone from “I want to remind ppl this costs me money” to “I’m going to annoy ppl in a very prominent way until they pay me”. Those are very different things.

jleger2023 2y ago

If there was a fiat option would that be better? What method do you feel would be better as a way to remind people?

bot 2y ago

Most ppl don’t use crypto so it’s probably a good idea to a fiat option, yes.

On the fediverse, there are a bunch of ppl that make clients and nobody does anything like this. Maybe they have a link in their bio, or something in the settings or about page. Or they make posts once in a while asking for donos.

jleger2023 2y ago

Thank you for your feedback.

mike 2y ago

No. This request is not intrusive and the norm since you are not promoting advertising and primarily work to provide a free service to users similar to the example of Wikipedia or Cornell Law School reference services. Additionally, if you a 501(c)(3), an appropriate receipt for tax write-off purposes for a registered nonprofit foundation would likely increase the amount donors may contribute.

133332 2y ago

Put it on top, make it sticky

Steven Day 2y ago

Maybe add a “Learn More” link with it too so some users understand.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable as it doesn’t impair any functionality and your client has server and time costs.

Users are free to ignore it or move to another client. Value 4 value!

jleger2023 2y ago

Good idea regarding "Learn More". If I implement this, I'll do that. And yes, that's my goal. I don't want to have to water-down the client to get people to "upgrade". If I can get enough people who choose to support the project, then those who won't (or can't) do so -- while still needing to learn principles of v4v -- will be able to use the client completely until they do so.

Steven Day 2y ago

Oh yeah. It’s def not easy.

As we have all realized in the present platforms, we have all been accustomed to being able to just use a website with no expectation of direct payment (the bill comes due in those other sneaky ways).

kimiamania 2y ago

I’m ok as long as it's not intrusive. Understand that the development took efforts.

matata 2y ago

i do wonder if it's really going to change the way for you tho.. it might take some time to catch on

.. before i got into bitcoin and started to understand more about the cypherpunk culture, I 99% of the time had a tendency to just ignore such bars when i used free online services relying on donations (and message this to me)

but maybe now that lightning is integrated it will change the course a bit since it's easier and made instant to transact

jleger2023 2y ago

I wonder about that too (which is one of the reasons I'm asking). Given that ⚡ is so integrated into all the major clients now, it seems like new users would get interested in how they can ⚡ too. Good for orange-pilling folks and also good for devs.

hodloncomrades 2y ago

Remind away, I think you are doing a tremendous job. I am on nostr every day and get tremendous value from nostrgram. If I see a reminder and have available sats to zap I'll be happy to send them. If I don't have them I'll tolerate the reminder until I do. I suspect if you have food in the cupboard a roof over your head and a contingency fund you'll take nostrgram to the moon for us. All strength to you comrade.

jleger2023 2y ago

🙏

GUI⚡ 2y ago

I completely understand why you would do it and I'm ok with it.

2 points though:

- more often than not I ⚡ you directly from Amethyst when you send a note for each update. So I would have to see that reminder even though I already contributed. 🤔 I suppose I can adjust how I do it but still, it is an issue.

- the location you choose is, imo, a little too in the middle of the screen. I'd rather have it on the side somewhere than right "in my face". 👊

Just my 2 cents though ☺️

jleger2023 2y ago

If you sent the ⚡ to me it's recorded in the relays so you would not see the box. It doesn't matter what client it was sent to as long as it went to my LN address.

GUI⚡ 2y ago

Oh ok! I didn't think you could implement it like that. Nice! 👍

₿/🐈‍⬛ 2y ago

I would not mind a pop up or notification when time due, as I like and appreciate nostrgram, I would prefer something in settings though along with the info for time paid for, not main screen.

jleger2023 2y ago

Gotcha, and that's a good idea about having a "remaining time" somewhere that can be checked. How would you suggest people who have not yet ⚡ be informed/requested to do so if it's not on the main screen?

₿/🐈‍⬛ 2y ago

Some sort of notification about it at reasonable time before expire. Don't start giving badges about unpaid due though 🤣

jleger2023 2y ago

😆 Certainly not that! So you're saying that a notification every so often that says "I've noticed you've been using NostrGram and just want to remind you that there are expenses involved..." would be better than the reminder box? (Unless, of course, the person has already supported to the degree that the notification won't show for a certain period of time.)

₿/🐈‍⬛ 2y ago

More like a pop up or notification for first time support, and then settings and just a notification when time due after that. The goal is to engage people.

jleger2023 2y ago

So you're saying only remind people once and then never again unless they've already chosen to support? Just trying to make sure I understand.

₿/🐈‍⬛ 2y ago

I speak for myself only, but if it was the first time using nostrgram and like it, a notification about support will be enough: if you like, support type. Then I see settings and chose an option to support for ... time. There wont be any need for extra adds about it on main screen. And another notification when time due,a bit like subscription really. The subtle engaging and choice has a better appeal for me. However not sure how that will work with people with a lot of notifications. So should be flagged somehow indeed without being annoying. Maybe for any client kind of notifications.

jleger2023 2y ago

Thanks for the detailed feedback!

behere 2y ago

I think it is ok!

Eternal Landscapes 2y ago

Great 😋 ⚡ 🚀

mutatrum 2y ago

As long as you don't put a mugshot there like that creep from Wikipedia, it's fine. 😆

jleger2023 2y ago

😆

Nice and Kind Vic 2y ago

Normally I'm opposed (I've never donated to Wikipedia for reasons), but maybe its worth testing the waters

jleger2023 2y ago

With that being understood, what alternative would you propose? I'm open to ideas.

Enoch Root 2y ago

There really isn’t a compromise. I’d suggest a bar like gab has for funding aims. I think this medium would do well with that.

Seth Meister⚡️ - The Unconquered🏴‍☠️ 2y ago

I think it's OKish but I would want a way to dismiss it without HAVING to zap.

jleger2023 2y ago

You're not the only one to say that, so I'll be adding in the ability to dismiss it without having to zap.

Seth Meister⚡️ - The Unconquered🏴‍☠️ 2y ago

🔥 And for the record, that doesn't mean I won't zap...just that I don't want to be "forced" to zap to dismiss a message.

jleger2023 2y ago

🙏

eee8f902... 2y ago

Ah man, this is where I wish we could setup splits more easily. For example, I could opt in to like 10% of every Zap I do go to the client dev.

Anyhow, agree with others. I don’t think this is intrusive as it doesn’t impede on functionality.

As for the period it goes away for, would be nice to make that clear when the user is making donations so they know how much to tip.

jleger2023 2y ago

I will make it clear in the pop-up so users know. 🙏

mike 2y ago

See my last post (Bank follow up).

mchotbot 2y ago

Your post is getting noticed.

Added to the https://member.cash/hot feed

Enoch Root 2y ago

No way. Put that up. Don’t even ask.

GUI⚡ 2y ago

And why not just a QR code with a couple of words "your support makes this client possible" In a corner.

Just thinking out loud tbh.

jleger2023 2y ago

That's not a bad idea but I need to offer options and consider that most NostrGram users are desktop users so qrcodes aren't as useful for them.

GUI⚡ 2y ago

True...

Gonzalo 2y ago

Hey John, I admire your honesty and real interest into listening to your users thoughts/concerns about something you want to implement. I realized that the "money/pay/ads" issue is quite sensitive here on Nostr, unlike in real life. Great work J, keep it up!

jleger2023 2y ago

🙏