Replying to Avatar SuiGenerisJohn

Have you considered charging a fee to teach people how to do this? And an ongoing fee for help managing it going forward?
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Filou 1mo ago

I will gladly help anyone who wants to spin up a node! That much is easy enough to teach/learn.

The actual liquidity and channel management is a whole other beast, and a constantly moving target! It took me a year or two at least to understand the basics before I was profitable, and I am still constantly learning / trying new strategies every day.

I have vaguely considered the possibility and would be interested to take on capital allocation and return dividends since I am maxed out as to the amount of sats I can personally dedicate in outbound liquidity. But it would have to be structured correctly (legally), and then there’s the tedious problem of custody of funds which I am definitely not comfortable with!

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SwBratcher 1mo ago

What kind of transaction volume to channel liquidity ratio are we talking about?

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Filou 1mo ago

My node currently routes around 3,000-4,000 tx per day, which amounts to anywhere from100% to 400% of available outbound liquidity daily.

https://primal.net/e/nevent1qqs9sfgkq8mzthl9xcmsgl4u0kjhra4clh58xa58jwghalr2vlkev7gfuz0wu

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SwBratcher 1mo ago

Revisiting this thread since it stuck in my mind. Does just making a node available to the network give you volume, or do you have to specifically tie into a known active transaction network or promote somehow for volume? Feel free to save typing and link me to where you’ve answered such basic questions before if you like. I’ve never explored the moving parts of lightening other than as a user, so you sparked my curiosity into something new to me.

Happy Thanksgiving. Hope you are able to get near friends and family. 🍗

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Filou 1mo ago

Making the node available and opening channels you will certainly get some traffic and routing.

But that alone is not enough for it to be sustainable / profitable.

Lightning at the base from a noderunner’s perspective is a liquidity marketplace. Buy low, put that liquidity where it is needed, and sell high. It’s a bit of an art and learning curve to do this effectively. And a constantly moving target as well, since liquidity, volume, etc on the network as a whole are constantly shifting.

nostr:nevent1qqsdduk5emnu4cg975w4s4nz6s93w87gqmf657f3uh9e493c997lv3qpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgm0le32

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Jake Woodhouse 1mo ago

nostr:nprofile1qqsytyzt9rl7pewtjye0ngywjahd0u8u2lvrsaupa2wgpujkcsfvrdqpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wvh8xmmrd9skcq2ywaehxw309u6kk7r5xe4x5enfdf5ngcmpdgmxjcmjx3snvvmsw5exv6nzwecrwefkxecrv7nyva3kvcn2094kgvnzv35xzdfn09jzummwd9hkumu669l it’s caught my attention as well

An infrastructure play, with Bitcoin/sats, with yield, in a growing market, high barrier initially

You could see specialist funds popping up to add liquidity

I wonder how you could do it in a non-custodial manner for an investor?

Lots of questions

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Jake Woodhouse 1mo ago

I’ve got Jesse from Amboss joining me next week on the podcast so keep an eye out for that

🙏🏻

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SwBratcher 1mo ago

Fantastic. I spent time talking with Jesse in Nashville, and his comments from our conversation actually lead to my question earlier. Jesse was talking about the need for transaction volume, and finding it to achieve a volume of yield on your staked coin. Anyone looking at this thread with intrigue; pile your filler questions to Jake so we get some good pleb how-to angles worked into his cast.

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Filou 1mo ago

Awesome, will be tuning in! 🤙

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Filou 1mo ago

Yes this is the big key, how to do it non-custodial? I’d love to be able to take on/manage more liquidity— I could easily offer a fairly guaranteed 5-10% yield and still cover costs plus earn a cut for ‘liquidity management.’ But I am not about to start holding custody of other people’s funds, and a lightning node in essence is a hot wallet— so not altogether without risk, especially as the value of liquidity under management grows. Can’t wait to hear what ideas nostr:nprofile1qqsrjxqeute0zwusetrjp9qeadt5aa7q686wsxr8lsjvg73uuh52yjqpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp064a45g might have to add to the convo

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Jake Woodhouse 1mo ago

Nice. I’d like to hear from nostr:nprofile1qqsrjxqeute0zwusetrjp9qeadt5aa7q686wsxr8lsjvg73uuh52yjqpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp064a45g as well

Got Jesse joining the podcast next week so we can learn from this insights as well

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SuiGenerisJohn 1mo ago

A software that automatically manages based on your proprietary analysis or proprietary reports recommending management strategies could be a big thing for you.

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Jake Woodhouse 1mo ago

In the same way that analysts sell information, “buy alerts” or something along those lines, you could sell to lightning channel operators

A subscription like substack

Or a private 1/1 coaching program

Even a weekly mentor call

Lots of ways to package it up

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SuiGenerisJohn 1mo ago

100% This seems like a business model that would be a lot of fun for people with capital they want to allocate to bitcoin but are scared by the "lack of yield"