If I walk up to you in a dark alley with a briefcase full of cash, we do our super top secret business deal, well too bad for you it's not super top secret anymore because I know that I gave you the money and I know how much was in the briefcase. Ha! Cash is completely traceable. The ball is in your court shitcoiner.
Discussion
aha!
but what if I give you a super secret hashed meeting point that only YOU can decrypt?
then you've "traced" the meeting location by decrypting my message haven't you??
bet you didn't think of that!
This is literally how cops trace cash
They mark the bills and hand them to criminal A, who they suspect works for criminal B. Then they wait for criminal B to deposit them at a bank, whereupon they arrest criminal B and use the marked bills (i.e. the trace) as evidence that he is part of the same mafia as criminal A
It's also very similar to how they arrest monero users: get some XMR to the criminal, wait for him to move it, trace the money to a KYC exchange, get his identity info, and arrest him
Lightning offers two huge fixes for this: you don't know what channel received the money (thanks to onion routing), and there's nothing to watch to see where it moves next (thanks to no blockchain)
cool story bro
the cash isnt "traced" if someone just hands it to another individual.
which is what you're actually spending all this time arguing about.
If that doesn't count as tracing then why do tracers start the trace by doing precisely that?
Wanna trace your $2 bill? Start a journal:
Step 1. I gave it to John.
^ Kanzan thinks this step doesn't count because it ruins his narrative
lol
"i traced the bill to John!"
🤡🤡🤡
Your irony is self defeating because the guy got arrested precisely because step 1 was so easy
"Hey Morphtoken, where did you send the XMR?" -- "No problem coppers, I sent to to this pubkey, here's the proof!" -- "Great, now let's watch to see where the money moves next."
LN offers two huge fixes here: Morphtoken does not know what pubkey gets the money (due to onion routing) and even if it did, you can watch a pubkey for ten thousand years and not see its next transaction (due to no blockchain).
its completely understandable you want to make the discussion about something else.
but your cope doesnt make the sender knowing the destination of their payment "tracing the payment"
It is tracing when you follow the money
It doesn't stop being tracing just cuz the first step is easy in monero
just like its "tracing" when you give me an address and I send you a letter.
it doesnt stop being tracing just because you gave me the address .
🤡
its kinda amazing that you're comfortable being this retarded on public
but hey "never admit fault or defeat" right? always double down, no matter how fucking ridiculous. the normies dont care about facts anyway and its not YOUR job to actually provide accurate information, right?
if I can send you a small payment on chain, connect it to a public key that I can then follow through other payments, how is that not tracing exactly? I really don't understand your argument
you cannot follow it through other payments.
therefore it isnt tracing.
his contention that simply knowing the first step, ie you send me a payment and therefore know where it goes,
that itself constitutes "tracing the payment"
I probably need to research more what super testnet is claiming, but one thing that's for certain is that his claims about lightning network are correct. tracing lightning payments, even given the lightning invoice is not really possible, in any way (especially when using bolt12)
Nobody is disputing his claims about LN, it isnt the subject of discussion.
He is simply asserting *the sender knowing the destination of their payment* is called "tracing the payment"
Yes, it really is that retarded. My apologies.
The "watch to see where the money moves next" part is doing all the heavy lifting here. How's that work with xmr?
Thats a cop tracing cash though. Can't do that with xmr. Youre talking about *you* knowing that *you* gave someone some amount of money. Draw me a picture of how a cop marks Monero.