It's funny how many gov-fighting bitcoiners are against woman, and not government, deciding what to do with their own body. It's almost as if they don't actually believe in freedom.
Discussion
woman can keep her legs closed
rape is a different story
abortion can end a woman's ability to have children ever, if she ever wakes up to herself, then what... it's not just a tattoo
Man can also keep their dicks in their pants.
this is why a secular society that has no sacred value on the creation of life decays
stupid people breed too much
smart people don't breed
overall this results in use of abortions and contraceptives that disrupt women's fertility and then you get a baby bust and then the migrants invade and then the crime rate goes through the roof and everything gets burned down and the survivers start again
it's literaly happened hundreds of times in history... the symbol of the heart β€οΈ is actually based on the shape of a leaf of a plant that causes abortions in the first week, and was very popular in the late days of rome, they had it
also russia, in between the tsars falling down and communists rising, you can read it in Dostoevsky's masterpiece Crime and Punishment that there was "free love" cults running rampant in St Petersberg in the late 19th century, and very likely plenty of abortions going on as well
really it's all symptoms of a society that has lost a sense of the value of life
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I notice that you also didn't use the word abortion in this argument
Why can't we just have precision when we discuss these matters? Thats more what I'm trying to get at here
I don't think they are "against women" I think they are against aborting babies?
I can use abortion just fine. I am happy with any abortion as long as the woman has the freedom to choose it.
Happy is too strong. But Ok with it.
Yes I think it's much more honest if we discuss it like this instead of saying "reproductive health" or "against women" - it's a precise thing we are discussing, not a category of health or gender. This is my point, that we try to use Word games to avoid just having a clear discussion about it, more just trying to demonize each other. It just muddies the waters
The person inside the womb has a seperate body from the mother.
This is no person until much, much later. And if the woman is contemplating an abortion much later in the process, I can guarantee you she wanted to have the child and is only doing it against her will (health purposes). Later stage abortion is a huge punishment on itself to any woman. There is no need to create laws to double down in the punishment side.
If we can't agree on when life begins this debate will never be settled. No point arguing. I believe this is the root.
Correct. And we will never agree. So, let the woman just choose it whatever works better for her. The later the abortion, the worse for her anyway.
Another solution is to have some places that allow, some places that don't, and allow people to freely self select the jurisdiction that aligns with their values, that way people don't have to compromise
except it is not so simple to change where you live.
Definitely not simple, and this is not a simple problem we've been grappling with for so long, I don't know the answers
Just thankful for nostr that we can attempt to have a free and open discussion about it, hopefully from the starting place that we are on the same team and not horrible people for having different opinions
wholeheartedly agree.
lmao
If we can't decide on when life begins, let her kill her child after birth, as well, if it is better for her? Why not as a toddler, if it is a burden? It's not a fully-formed human, the same argument applies.
Why not default to protecting life as a default instead of murder?
Why not spend resources to help the mother with pregnancy and taking care of the child or adoption?
If there are alternatives to killing innocent life, why not pursue them instead?
Why not default to protecting life instead of murder? Why not spend resources to help the mother with pregnancy and taking care of the child or adoption?
You can. You just can't force the mother to carry on something on HER BODY that she doesn't want to. But feel free to develop mechanisms that the fetus can develop outside the mother.
Happy with killing a child?
Happy with your wife killing your son against your will?
Happy with ripping a baby up in the womb?
You are missing that there are two humans involved.
Ah the forced birth conundrum.
Yep this is the root for sure, will never settle.
Life begins at conception.
If life is defined with metabolism, sure. Many organisms have metabolism, across the kingdoms. So then is it consciousness? Lots of organisms are conscious. What sets apart human life? Meaning? Potential? Experience?
Do I really have to explain how humans are intrinsically different from all other animals?
Dude yes please do cause we aren't. You're a fuckin animal dude
Humans are not animals because we have imagination, logic, science, written language etc.
Arguing about what a βhumanβ is, debating the proper course of action, having power over the natural world- these are what makes us Human.
It is what the Bible is referring to when it teaches us that we are created in the image of God, to be Stewards of the Earth.
I prefer to say we are rational animals capable of logic, long term goal orientation, and advanced creativity. Still animals technically, but very much in our own league of animals. This nomenclature is much more consistent.
Still doesnβt explain why we have the right to property on earth and animals donβt.
We should give all the livestock lightning wallets
Actually it does. Legitimate property is the stuff that we have the information necessary to control without hurting others. Animals are not able to manage much but their own bodies and nests and stuff. Humans can manage far more. We have the ability to reason at a much more advanced level. We need these things to survive, and we have the ability to use them and to do so without hurting others for it. We have dominion over other life forms generally speaking, because we are, well, just able to. We're designed that way. We are tapped into logic, the logos of this universe, and are therefore endowed with the ability to be stewards of it.
Sure even that is fair enough. We're all flesh but we aren't mere beasts. Man is destined for greater, that's cool. But then what part is the part that isn't ok to snuff out? Cause if flesh-life starts at conception, and continues to death, that's the case for all of the creatures. I can kill and eat a beast. Should not torture the beast or cause undue suffering... Is aborting a calf as heinous as aborting a human?
Completely agree.
Abortion is just a form of euthenasia.
Kill your offspring. Kill your grandma. Kill yourself.
Culture of Death.
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This, exactly this. Guns, abortion and immigration are all great triggers to get the closet statists to out themselves.
This is why they are always top of the debates, great for manufacturing consent for more government power. They get the most population to line up and beg for a boot to lick.