The right tool for the right job. GitHub is not a tool installing and running software, itās a collaboration and context tool. There are numerous examples of really good README files that get a non-technical user up and running.
I know GH has Releases which is a nice way to bundle apps/software. But aside from that, I donāt think what youāre describing is a tool built on top of git.
TLDR; GH is not for install software, itās for source control context.
1. I didn't say it was for installing software, it's just an example of a stupidly simple task that is turned into complex acrobatics on github.
2. A bitcoin wallet isn't for creating a backup, but if it's not intuitive to do so its a big problem. You can't test or work on software without installing it.
The 3-5 most important functions of any software or app should be intuitive enough such that you don't have to read a manual to perform them. More advanced things sure, but the most basic functions should be visually clear through its design.
I'm sorry if you are taking mild offense, but Github is a UX disaster and nobody can use that thing without basically taking a course in how to navigate it. I used to absolutely despise having to go over there, and even today while using it normally I sometimes stop to look at it from a design perspective and just sit in awe at how bad it is.
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Seriously the next time you are on github, just honestly *look* at it and tell me that anything in that design makes intuitive sense & could be naturally understood by someone who isn't familiar with it.
Interestingā¦.
It is hard for me, as a developer, really understand how a non-technical person can experience Github.
As a developer, that uses Github on daily basis for more than 5 years, handling complex systems with 1000+ repositories, the Github UX is easily on my TOP 5.
One of the things I like the most is that Github makes clear to you what actions are potentially destructive, or insecure, and makes sure that you understand the consequences of that.
But I acknowledge that your experience can be totally different!
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That said, I believe the bounty created by Jack is focused on a layer below that, not necessarily in the UX/UI side of things.
Actually, if we have a underlying protocol for code management in Nostr, we could have multiple clients(with different UX/UI) sharing the same content :)
Yeah I think this disconnect is purely a perspective difference between going from a developer mindset -> to the user while mine and many others is from the user -> to the developer.
My thing is that testing and exploration of those who want to learn or understand is hit with such confusing barriers so incredibly quickly that you canāt really just āexploreā very well. Which I think increases the divide
(Didnāt get to finish comment earlier)
I also think this is a huge problem that developers overlook when it comes to users. I do get that there are probably things like you say that GitHub does well that are not obvious to non-devs, but essentially 99% of open source software says āDownload it at GitHub (LINK)!ā
I would like to have widespread adoption of open source software but as long as the UI complaints are answered with āGitHub isnāt for installing software,ā thatās never going to happen.
I originally meant the OP to be funny, but it does actually matter. And unfortunately developers generally have a very terrible sense of the user perspective and I donāt think many realize how much that determines the success or failure of a piece of software - and often the cleanliness and security of its function is a distant second. Iāve seen really cool tools sit unused and I literally think itās because there was no UI or visual design to get a user to understand their relationship to it.
In short: I think user design is a massive, unaddressed problem in open source software, & we should start thinking about it very hard, or we are going to lose to the same centralized, closed source crap for no other reason than we didnāt know how to communicate with normal humans š
Guy, you hit the nail on the head. As someone who has just started using GitHub over the last 2 years as I went down the Bitcoin rabbit hole, it is not intuitive or beginner friendly
thanks. This is what I would expect to. I think the majority of devs will hate my take & think it makes no sense. While the majority of new people to bitcoin & open source in the last 3-5 years will think my take here is spot on. š¤£
Devs are a different breed. I canāt code but still want to verify my open source software Iām downloading easily all on one platform with the click of a button. I also want in big letters āDOWNLOAD HEREā lol
100% agree. Its INSANE to me that just getting shit installed onto your computer so you can try it out hasn't got any easier in the last 15 years. If anything, the proliferation of GitHub has made it even more confusing for non-devs.
How did Hal install the original
Bitcoin core on his computer?
How did you install it on your computer?
Writing complex software and then creating a seamless install method are both laborious. I think thereās over-trivialization of creating an installer/bundle/whatever in this thread.
Oh I definitely don't mean to trivialise the task! It's far from trivial - but it is also super important imho. Time and effort are limited resources for both devs and non-devs. A laborious task for a Dev can save literally thousands of effort-hours for non-devs, and "If you really care you'll learn how" isn't an excuse that scales. Its only ever true for a comparatively small subset of potential users.
šÆ
Proof of Work is life. But scaling requires using other work for you.
Even though I said ācan you please make it intuitiveā I really do feel like the responsibility for this layer kinda falls on people in my position.
Iām technically skilled enough to know a lot of what is going on in GitHub, but still spend so much time naturally exploring and thinking about simple design that I think I do really well with the normie perspective.
I did a 9 page write up with the problems and some potential solutions to the old design of BTcPayServer and they actually took into account like a third of what I suggested and it is far better with the new UI. Still not perfect and some of the tools and naming conventions are still confusing, but itās much better than it was.
I wish I felt like I had time to actually build and design interfaces for things because I think Iād be good at it and from what Iāve worked on purely from a photoshop perspective Iāve had really positive feedback. Between my sisters color and aesthetic skill and my own thinking around app flow and uses, I think we could really be valuable. Really just a matter of time and resourcesā¦ always is I guess.
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Please keep recommending UI/UX improvements so creativity retarded colour blind people like myself can improve things for users.
I am not over trivializing it, Iām trying to explain the *importance* of it. I donāt claim at all that what Iāve suggested is an easy task.
Like I said, my OP was supposed to be a casual joke about my pains with using GitHub despite starting this in depth conversation. š
Itās obviously vastly easier said than done. As someone who digs through dependencies incessantly with docker tools and is working with someone right now to try and get slashtags fully built inside a Wordpress plug-in, trust me I know this isnāt a simple ask.
What feels like the 100s of different times and different versions and environments and docker instances in which I have installed the same python packages still confound me to no end. And how often I try to do something only to realize the version in the current thing Iām working in isnāt the right one and then trying to understand how and at what layer I need to update or downgrade python or pip or whatever - just hurts my face š¤£š¤£
Computers can be infuriating sometimes.
Python is a shitcoin.
I also agree. Have been coding for about 5 years now. GitHub and git for that matter took a long time to understand. I do agree now that I am developing at my job full time that the interface is actually amazing.
I think a bulk of the confusion actually stems from how hard it is for a total novice to understand git.
Therefore your distinction between the protocol and the client is actually very important. Itās also good! I think the ideal client for a developer and an end user are in reality two totally different views of the same information.
No offense takenš«, I appreciate the perspectives and understand your points. I just think weāre talking about two separate tools. Hammer vs screwdriver type of thing.
I donāt install many things from source due to the friction you describe. I use package managers or app stores because those are purposely designed with that flow in mind.
Got itself is a nightmare to understand. Just go search āgit porcelain vs plumbingā. Itās a complex system in its own right. Any time you add layers of abstraction, it gets a little less clunky.
When youāre frustrated with the process of using GitHub for a task (install or otherwise), ask yourself āhow would I do this using CLI/non-GUI?ā I guarantee whatever your doing requires much more wizardry and knowledge on the CLI than in the GUI.
That being said, UI/UX abstractions on top of git should improve over time as most abstractions do. (Compare computer management/use from the 90s/00s to now)
Love youāre content š§”š§”and perspectives and if you ever have concrete ideas for an improved flow related to git, please share!
Until then, Iām going to just copy the GitHub design because my brain isnāt creative enough to think of new ways. š«
