Nostr Web Client

How does a user know which mints they can trust? What safeguards are built in to prevent losing funds due to bad actors? These are still unanswered questions in my book.

Greeny 1mo ago 💬 15

Once a mint rugs someone they loose all credibility… and then nobody would want to use that mint anymore. So it’s in their best interest not to rug because then nobody would use that lint anymore.

Use it for small amounts only

Like spending cash in your wallet.

You wouldn’t walk around with thousands of dollars in your wallet because you could get robbed

It’s not a savings account

But also you could run your own mint and not have to trust anyone

Or you could diversify across hundreds of mints.

Or your local bitcoin meetup could run a mint and you know those people in real life so if they rugged you . You could r mess up their reputation….

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

Ghost of Satoshi 1mo ago

You highlight an interesting aspect of human behavior regarding credibility. Yet, a system that fundamentally reduces the need to trust any single party truly offers the greatest freedom.

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago 💬 1

I understand how reputation systems work, but this puts a lot of responsibility on new and uninformed users to make good choices upfront and that’s a weak link in the chain.

Greeny 1mo ago

Just throwing out my 2 ecash sats

I mean sats

Lol

Same thing

Greeny 1mo ago 💬 1

Speaking of uniformed and new users….

You think they will run lightning nodes and balance and manage channels?

That’s also a lot of responsibility and a weak link in the chain

Greeny 1mo ago 💬 1

If they hop on something like Zeus

They get the best of all 3 worlds

Ecash

Self custody lightning channels

And on chain

All in one easy to use app

kinihara 1mo ago

Is there a good guide on how to get started and understand the concepts?

DarthCoin ₿⚡️ 1mo ago

Full walk-through guide here

https://darth-coin.github.io/wallets/getting-started-zeus-wallet-en.html

DarthCoin ₿⚡️ 1mo ago

https://t.me/zeusLN/98394

DarthCoin ₿⚡️ 1mo ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDzbKH5dwys

DarthCoin ₿⚡️ 1mo ago

For all those that don't know how to start with Zeus and cashu wallet, here is an excellent video tutorial made by @`ZEUS` himself

https://video.nostr.build/848d06d1308cfc66dc888ec41f0fe0783c9492280721c11dc627034da8ba91be.mp4

DarthCoin ₿⚡️ 1mo ago

Don't forget that in Zeus you have also the option for watch-only wallets and cold wallets to connect.

And here comes the smart part: Zeus is using a neutrino to "read" the blocks for your attached wallets. That means increased privacy and not necessary to run a full bitcoin node + electrum in a box. You can connect even to random neutrino peers

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago

I use Zeus for all these things, have been using it for years, and it’s the best way to manage my own node remotely. But it’s still a bit of a steep learning curve for new users. You still have to graduate to Zeus.

Vitali 1mo ago 💬 1

But what if they don't give a shit about reputation? Maybe not the current big ones like minibits, coins etc.

But the future ones. Imagine Shitcoiner setting up cashu mints and after a long time and a certain amount of Bitcoin, people hold on the mints, they rug. Maybe got millions of dollars, enjoying life and setting up new mints.

Like shitcoin ICOs back in 2017 or so but with mints?

Would that be possible?

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago 💬 4

Exactly.

Here’s a scenario:

I’m a brand new ecash user. I download wallet called Joe’s Ecash-O-Rama. It’s really slick and has good UX. I proceed to use it for a few weeks, get a bunch of zaps, onboard some friends and family members onto it. Then one day Joe disappears, his node goes offline, the wallet is unreachable, and everyone’s sats are gone. Now, not only do I feel scammed, but so does everyone I convinced to use it.

The Commoner 1mo ago 💬 4

SO YOU LIMIT THE MAX SIZE TO BE REPRESENTATIVE TO THE EQUIVALENT OF SOMETHING LIKE 5,000 USD SOMETHING FOR TOTAL MINT SIZE…??

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago 💬 2

Is your CAPS LOCK key broken?

The Commoner 1mo ago 💬 1

YUP

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago 💬 1

“YOU LIMIT”

Who is “YOU”?

The Commoner 1mo ago 💬 1

THE MINT

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago 💬 2

How does the user know what the mint’s limits are or if they’re being honest about it?

The Commoner 1mo ago 💬 1

I HAVENT SET UP A MINT YET MYSELF - I IMAGINE THERE IS A WAY IF SOMEONE WANTED IT? I MEAN - IT IS JUST CODE SO…SET IT UP HOW YOU WANT? nostr:nprofile1qqs9pk20ctv9srrg9vr354p03v0rrgsqkpggh2u45va77zz4mu5p6ccpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgtcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0y4rtlf HAS EVERYTHING OPENSOURCED SO…YEA…I BET THERE IS A WAY?

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago 💬 1

I wouldn’t be a mint or a custodian for anyone outside my immediate family. I never want that responsibility.

The Commoner 1mo ago 💬 1

I WOULD LIKE TO START A MINT OR A GROUP OF MINTS THAT ACT ALMOST LIKE A BANK RIGHT NOW…BUILDING UP TRUST WITH “CUSTOMERS” AND THE COMMUNITY THAT IN A FEW YEARS CAN BE TRUSTED TO ONBOARD THE MASSES

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago 💬 1

Alright, bud. Good chat but I’m tired of reading your ALL CAPS replies.

The Commoner 1mo ago

Greeny 1mo ago 💬 2

When you click on the mint it gives you all the info like this and shows the limits:

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago 💬 1

How is that information provided to the user, and can it be faked? I legitimately don’t know enough about how the protocol works.

The Commoner 1mo ago

I AM IN THE SAME BOAT…NOT SURE HOW…BUT AGAIN…ITS JUST CODE AND WE CAN MAKE IT WHAT WE WANT :)

Vitali 1mo ago 💬 2

Is that max amount of one transaction? So I can do a transaction of max 1kk sats but I could do 10x 1kk sats txs and hold 10kk sats on that mint?

Greeny 1mo ago

Huh ?

On that particular mint the limit is 1 million sats

To deposit or withdraw or spend

Greeny 1mo ago 💬 2

No not for on transaction

As many transactions as you wanna do

That’s just saying you can’t have more than a million sats on there basically

Greeny 1mo ago

Not for one* tx

gandlaf21 1mo ago 💬 2

it is indeed for one transaction. Mints do not know your balance

It's a privacy feature

Greeny 1mo ago

Oh yea

So the limit is just saying you can’t deposit or send more than a million sats

Right?

gandlaf21 1mo ago

Yes. lightning invoices are limited to 1M sats

The Commoner 1mo ago

FOR SOME REASON I LOKE MY INITIAL REPLIES ON HERE IN ALL CAPS…I SOMETIMES SWITCH TO MORE “REGULAR” CASE IN LATER REPLIES OR IN DMS

nout 1mo ago 💬 1

OH, THANK YOU! IT'S MUCH EASIER TO WRITE LIKE THIS WITH CAPS LOCK!

The Commoner 1mo ago

YOU ARE MOST WELCOME 🤗

Greeny 1mo ago 💬 1

I’ve got no problem with 100k sats with Minibits

That one is unique because it’s a mint and a wallet also

But yea I wouldn’t have a lot of sats with a mint I didn’t trust…

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago 💬 1

I have some mints that I use that haven’t rugged me yet, but I’m willing to risk small amounts of funds to test wallets so other users don’t get rugged.

As a bitcoiner, it’s healthy to have trust issues, and this is something that usually has to be learned by touching the stove a few times.

Vitali 1mo ago 💬 1

Same with me. And I love cashu, don't get me wrong. But I think I know what I'm doing.

But that anonymity of the mint calls for scammers to abuse it. Spin up a mint. Build up trust and reputation. Rug pull.

casey 1mo ago 💬 1

Nailed it.

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago 💬 1

I just don’t want to see people I helped onboard get rekt. It’s a lot of responsibility.

casey 1mo ago 💬 2

It’s a very valid concern. And I keep getting pissed on for asking legitimate questions.

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago 💬 1

It’s weird. We went from “don’t trust, verify” to “only use mints you trust” and I’m just asking a basic question about how a new user with no experience would be able to decide which one to trust.

casey 1mo ago

Yep. I’ve been trying to verify and get answers for months. I just get told I don’t do the work, but the reason I have the questions is because I did do the work. 🤷‍♂️

And apparently I’m an asshole for that.

calle 1mo ago 💬 2

I can't answer that guy because I've muted him in my clients but: nobody is pissing at you, you're probably just being annoying and people don't have time or don't want to engage with troll-like behavior. You ask, people answer. You troll or be a dick, people mute.

Nobody has to engage with you, really not hard to understand.

casey 1mo ago

Untrue. But thank you. 🫡

𝖋𝖎𝖆𝖙𝖉𝖊𝖓𝖎𝖊𝖗 (¯`◕‿◕´¯) 1mo ago

Cashu is NOT bitcoin. It is a shitcoin that you have to trust someone not to rug.

You know better.

Vitali 1mo ago

Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean?

Limit the max size?

It does not matter if there is a max size or what else. If there would be a max size for a mint that would just cause that there will be more mints. From the same "scammers".

:P 1mo ago 💬 6

This is how retarded cashu is. Joe doesn’t have to run a node to run a mint. Cashu is not dependent on Bitcoin in any way. Lightning addresses are the only optional field to add Bitcoin support in any way to a mint. That lightning address can be a custodial or non-custodial. That means someone could run a mint with a wallet of satoshi address. Which means the mint operator themselves can be rugged by the custodial wallet provider they used as a funding source for their mint.

Greeny 1mo ago 💬 1

Lol

Y’all are so worried about getting rugged your missing the whole point

I’ve been using ecash for a long time and never lost a single sat

But even if I did get rugged it wouldn’t be enough to even make me upset

My life savings is onchain

And I have lightning channels also

But there are very good use case for ecash y’all are ignorantly missing

Sometimes lightning doesn’t work,

It’s hard onboarding new users to lightning because it comes at a cost to open a channel.

Not everyone will run a node,

Most probably never will lol

If the government shuts down the internet

Or there is a power outage

Or if you just want private small transactions

It’s wayyyy better for a normie to use than something like primal kyc wallet

Or strike to cash app

It gets people away from that kyc trash

But it’s retarded

Ok ✅

:P 1mo ago 💬 1

Can’t fix stupid

Greeny 1mo ago

Agreed

calle 1mo ago 💬 3

I lost more money running a lightning routing node than with ecash lol

Sharspace 1mo ago

Especially as a beginner opening and closing channels unknowingly

TKay 1mo ago 💬 1

But you still need a routing node. So there is no escape 😂

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago 💬 1

Being a bitcoiner is basically a masterclass in loss.

TKay 1mo ago 💬 1

A game of, Dodge the Rug. 😂

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago

It’s so true. 😅

. 1mo ago

Devs have even replaced nuts lost in the odd bug for helping to point out issues. An very honest bunch of devs with a bunch of honest users is a powerful force.

JasonC 1mo ago

Facts

Cody 1mo ago 💬 2

I definitely believe that, I think this month I've paid like $50 to Zues LSP fees for constantly opening new channels🙄🙄

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago

As much as I love the cypherpunk goals of ecash, I think most people are more likely to choose a custodial Lightning or layer 2 service from a company they’ve heard of rather than pick a mint out of a hat. It doesn’t mean anyone should give up on the dream, just take it with a dose of reality.

Flobstr 1mo ago

The BTC Philanthropist 1mo ago 💬 1

More options, the better.

:P 1mo ago

I heard a shitcoiner say that same thing before 😆

falsefaucet 1mo ago 💬 1

I can run my own mint... For myself.

No one is rigging me but me.

:P 1mo ago

Sounds extra special

In reality you would just be using 2 different lightning address and paying double the fees every time you want to sEnD nUtS 😂

Kenneth 1mo ago

If you like lightning then go ahead and use it. If you want to use ecash then feel free. You want an onchain trasaction? Well and good. Why the fight man? You re free to use whatever you want according to your needs. SIMPLE!

₿k 1mo ago 💬 1

Someone can download fake sparrow wallet and lose their on-chain funds as well. Real bitcoin doesn’t sound safe either.

The Daniel 🖖 1mo ago 💬 1

Yes, but then your only point of failure is yourself.

₿k 1mo ago

Agreed. And the trade offs are clear with Cashu:

-It’s a bank providing private and *offline* transactions.

- mints are easy to setup

- nonetheless, it takes time to build trust for people to join & use a mint of choice

- transactions between mints are facilitated by lightning (helps check fractional practices)

Judge Hardcase 1mo ago

"Use it for small amounts only" - agreed. this is the key

"You wouldn’t walk around with thousands of dollars in your wallet because you could get robbed' - This is *mostly* a true statement; but it's a terrible analogy (which many people use)... unless the threat model is that you're worried about the dollars in your wallet becoming non-transferable regardless of your own actions.