Why would the inner working of consciousness have any relevance to the meaning of life? Emergent properties can be far more complex than the primitives of the system.
Discussion
Because it means free will does not exist. Absent free will, I see no value in life. If our lives are either a craps shoot, or predetermined, neither one leaves any room for agency, for evil, or for heroism.
We did it because our number was up.
I’m not mentally at my best, apologies if I’m not making sense.
That line of argument is not uncommon but I disagree. Meaning of life is what we ascribe to it. And if we pick a meaning of life that is at odds with consciousness emerging from rather simple building blocks, we might not have picked well.
I find Darwinism as a general purpose of all living beings quite convincing. We live to adapt to whatever the universe throws at us and if the universe threw the end of the universe at us, maybe that thriving high tech civilizations decided to have lives in the matrix. Maybe we get unplugged at some point to appreciate the approaching black hole and we jump back in to play another life. Maybe you've plaid 100 lives before and decided to play with a mental challenge this time. And maybe the world is a rats maze that we have to find the way out? Once you figure out the purpose of the current simulation, you win and get to play the next level.
I find your position to be intellectually compelling, and I expected nothing less from you based on the few interactions we’ve had.
We find purpose and meaning from very different places, I will acknowledge that. 🤣 But I love it. So much diversity of thought. If I am remembering correctly, Dawkins has a similar line of reasoning re:purpose and meaning, and Dawkins is another intellectual that I disagree with and deeply enjoy reading.
I do believe if there is a definite truth somewhere between our positions, that AI research will be a great testing grounds for finding it! I believe I posted a few months ago that I believed the question of the century would be determinism - and I had AI in mind when I posted it.
If AI truly produces something that is convincingly sentient - conscious - then it would certainly support your stance, and I would have to reconsider mine fundamentally. Unfortunately for my side, I don’t think a failure for AI to do so will be as strong of an evidence for my stance.
I do find it fascinating how we as humans can feel so differently about determinism, which is what I feel this conversation really boils down to in some way.
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I just want to express some gratitude outside of a few sats. The topics of consciousness & free will are ones that I spend a fair amount of my leisure time exploring. For this type of conversation to propagate from something random & relatively stupid that I said, changes the dynamic of my day & further deepens my own perspectives. I can't recall for sure if it involved any of you previously, but it's not the first time this has happened & I hope its not the last. I may not speak up or provide much, but the discussion is appreciated here. Genuinely. 💜
Big 🫂🫂🫂
I’ve spent a lot of time thinking, reading, and writing about exactly these things. A small bit on Nostr, but mostly on my own time and with my wife (who is profoundly “plugged in” as well).
I love the idea of Nostr serving as a space for this kind of discourse, with people around the world that we’re all just meeting and getting to know.
Discussions that once took place in Ancient Greek village centers, and then in college coffee shops, can now be shared across countries and time zones. (Not just from Nostr, of course - it’s an internet thing, but combining two things I love makes me especially happy and even more contemplative).
It’s very cool to see the moments from which more deeply connective thought and conversation happen to arise. Makes me appreciative and glad to remember that We’re Here Now 🫂🙏🤙