If you feel the urge to go to the gym, every day, have you considered transitioning to some other, more productive, form of physical labour, instead?
Why is this not a thing?
Discussion
What would you suggest?
Theoretically, robots are more efficient than humans.
Practically, humans are paying money to exert or suppress their energies in an unproductive manner and then also paying for robots to do what the humans previously did.
Why go to the gym when you fry your retinas programming instead 😂?
You didn't have permission to call me out like that 😡
But, really, from that article from nostr:nprofile1qqs8qy3p9qnnhhq847d7wujl5hztcr7pg6rxhmpc63pkphztcmxp3wgpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgmwaehxw309a6xsetxdaex2um59ehx7um5wgcjucm0d5hsz9nhwden5te0dehhxarjv4kxjar9wvhx7un89uqaujaz :
>>As the space for intelligent human action gets colonized by machines, our own capacity for intelligent action atrophies, leading to calls for yet more automation.<<
Can we not say the same for physical action?
Robots take over physical labor. Humans engage in less physical labor and physically atrophy. Everyone says, Good thing we have the robots, to do that, since humans can't do it.
But humans were doing it, before.
Soon they will say, good thing we have computers to read and curate written text and search the Internet, since humans are too stupid to do so.
But humans used to read and search the Internet. It was real. I was there. I am a witness.
It's the tyranny of scale and increasing marginal utility. If a human can do the task in 3 seconds and the machine in 3 nanoseconds, the human is to COMPLETELY ABANDON THE TASK.
But, then, the human unlearns the task and will require the computer to perform it, going forward.
Which will totally suck if the machine becomes unavailable for the duration for whatever reason. A large minority of people were always unable to navigate from a map, but now...
You can already see people standing in front of a well-stocked pantry and kitchen, decrying that there is nothing to eat.
We embody what we actuate and disembody/ atrophy whatever we don't. Our creations, while immersive are uncomperable the the analog & fluid aspects of our perceptive & action oriented processes.
The creation of tools and the broader concept of our continuous exaptative processes hints at our potential. To segment objects from our sensory fog, and to continually create more uses for said objects. But it can only come from recurrent encounters.
The only way to carve more and deeper channels is by continually tending to them through continually engaging them in their /natural/ environment. Probably makes for a good general reminder.
Yes, I can sort of see that. That the proper use of tools is to allow humans to become more efficient, not to replace them or make them obsolete, so humans should always work in parallel with their tools and refine their tools and expand their tools. Interact with their tools or leverage their changes to their tools by surveying.
They shouldn't fall for the fallacy that the Creation can be greater than the Creator.
An interesting dichotemy - the local vs the macro. You have your goal to reach, and you'll try to get their as fast as possible. Find perceived straight lines and slam on the gas. Yet, the meandering around is what helps learn the landscape in the long run, not the straight lines.
Perceived because you might think you're taking shortcuts at first, but you might just be sending yourself into circles trying to leave the forest. Even worse, your overconfidence developed from using those shortcuts can make you even more lost when you don't have access to them and the stakes are high. You want to be lost at your own volition, not when the forest monster is stalking you.
I've noticed this, my whole life. I've continued to do activities that everyone else abandoned -- or even added new ones -- and now I look like a universal genius.
But it is simply that I persist, even when automation is superior, because I think the honing of mind and body is too valuable to capitulate to the machines. At the same time that I always learn to also leverage the machines.
And this, ironically, is precisely what keeps me ahead of the machines, and independent of machines.
It begins with very simple questions.
Why learn to play an instrument or read music?
Why learn to read anything, at all?
But it ends with more advanced questions.
Why learn how relays work? Why learn how code is compiled or interpreted?
It's always funny, how people are offended at how much influence I have upon the protocol and the developers, but they are missing the point that I've taken the time to FIGURE OUT HOW THESE THINGS WORK.
Knowledge really is power, and knowledge within yourself is the greatest power.
So, David Goggins - man is batshit crazy doing what he does. But that's it, he lives to overcome his own pain. He was on Andrew Huberman's podcast where it was mentioned that there is a region in the brain that gets stronger from doing things you don't enjoy - like actually loath it. Not that "it's painful but yadayada", actually hating every fiber in your body that is actaully engaged in the activity, and still doing it.
There's something profoundly human about that.
bringing up recommendation systems - its interesting how we create technology to "free ourselves up", yet some of those freedoms end up boxing ourselves, disconnecting ourselves from the open endedness of nature. Definitely a conversation to be had about our technology design to enable more agency instead of atrophying it.
I like how our team has been approaching LLMs as a form of complementary navigation or leveraging of, or preparation for, human curation. A symbiosis for the advancement of the human, rather than the machine.
$ su
Now I do
All of the strongest men I personally know IRL do not go to the gym, but their hands are rough and calloused. That's all I'm saying.
umm... as a climber my hands are calloused and rough
Dudes got a whole series of tradesmen vs bodybuilders
Good note. I have been thinking about it for a while but still haven’t figured it out. Not an easy task for city people. 8h work on computer, then possibly a side project, you are left with very little time if you cook your meals, read books or walk outside. So who will need for your physical labour of 1-2hrs a day? Inefficient. But not impossible. Will let you know if my plan works out!
you neex rest days too, lol
I make physical labour like cutting wood, in the gardens etc exactly because i prefer to make something productive. But if you have specific goals then the gym might be necessary. Btw now in the winter, there is no work in the gardens, i have already the wood i need and whenever it rains a lot, i have no physical labour to do. Any ideas? Or should i keep on with these push ups?
Hiking is always good. Try taking a long walk to an actual destination.
But also remember that winter is supposed to be a time when humans have quieter, more contemplative lives. So, maybe read more books or carve wood.
Other good things are archery, or joining the volunteer fire department or community clean-up crew.
Thanks. Hiking yes, i do that. When not raining and especially when there are no thunders, winter is fine for outdoor activities.
But i also relax by the fireplace and crack nuts and hazelnuts from my trees, while i listen to geopolitical news 😀.
Home gym. Save time and $. Do productive things with time saved?
Humourous story (for me). For most of my life I was a human stick. 6'4" 165lbs. Got teased a fair bit for being skinny. But I also grew up working on farms.
At the end of every year in college we were required to unbunk any beds in the dorms. A bodybuilder's roommate had already left for the summer so he asked me to help him unbunk his bed. They were pretty heavy and awkward and for whatever reason he couldn't get a proper hold to lift his end, so being annoyed I put the whole thing on my shoulders and did it by myself while he watched confused.
I was definitely not stronger, but a life spent doing actual physical work had unsurprisingly better prepared me to do actual physical work.
That being said I am now a dough boy who could stand to get back to doing manual labor.
Yeah, it's hard to substitute #realwork with #fakework. Fakework is what you do to prepare for realwork or to maintain a certain level of fitness between bouts of realwork (such as when you're snowed in, on a submarine, or stuck working overtime at a desk job).
If you're _only_ doing fakework, but that regularly, you should at least consider rebalancing. Unless you're in training for a weightlifting competition, or undergoing rehabilitation, or something.
It's not that fakework is worthless, but we should always remember that it is merely the means to some productive end.
One thing I've really noticed, lately, is the importance of a strong grip. Holding bars or pulling on handles or lifting blocks or bells doesn't seem to develop the muscles in the hands and arms anywhere near as efficiently, as realwork. Especially because realwork tends to constantly switch between different activities, and fine/coarse movements.
It's like the difference between typing and writing with an ink pen.
It's like the finer development of each particular muscle can create excess lift. Perhaps it's a question of muscular control or application. Or, I suspect, heavier bones. All of the strong men I know have very strong bones. That's why you can't easily tell how strong they are, by appearance alone. It's things like tendons and calcification, gracefulness, or the coordination between mind and body. Simply often knowing _how_ to do the thing most neatly and efficiently.
Lol. That was also fun in college. Young men when meeting sometimes turn handshakes into grip contests. I'd let them think they were beating the skinny guy with tiny wrists then crunch their metacarpals.
That is gone now as well. Don't match grips with a farmer.
I don't think real work exercises grip more efficiently, it is just that you have to keep going for hours even after your hands and forearms have fatigued out. In a weight room you don't choose to endure that kind of pain. You don't choose it in the field or garage either. You just get the work done or you don't and don't isn't an option, so you push yourself so far past the breaking point that you can barely pick up a fork in the evening. Then you wake up a 5AM and do it again. There is no leg day.
Yeah, like in the military, or renovation.
Moving day is moving day and basta. Pick up your hammer and keep going. There is no rest for the weary and there is no crying in construction.
It was like that, in the bakery. Be ready to literally just fall over and it's like... 23 boards to go. Spend 4 hours scrubbing the floors and walls and realize you only have 6 more hours to go. 😭
I'd come home from night shift, simply unable to speak.
I think that's why I like cross-country running and hiking. It doesn't matter how terrible you feel, you still have to hobble all. the. way. home.
Like the village's yearly pilgrimage over the hills, for 50 km, by foot. The last 5 km or so, you literally are in a trance and can easily trip over small stones on the path because you can barely raise your feet. And it just seems to go on and on and occasionally someone just faints right away.
Your village has a yearly pilgrimage?! I must know more!
There are multiple pilgrimages. Some just to the next field chapel or cross (they dot the countryside), some to the next larger town (circa 14 km round-trip), and then the one very far away, that they've been making since the medieval ages, either on foot or by bicycle (there are two groups). They've never missed a year.
The one on foot leaves at 5 am and arrives for Vespers. 10 hours of marching and praying, with some breaks.
Back in the day, they would actually march there, sleep in the barn, and then march back the next day, but we're all soft now, and take a bus home. 😂
Pilgrimages are common here. The famous Jacob's Route to Santiago de Compostela goes past.
At any rate, people don't realize what an advanced-level I'm working on, physically and mentally. But I'm constantly pushing my own boundaries and eventually I hit some wall.
What I always always always notice, is that the men around me invariably take longer to reach that wall and they recover much faster from the collision.
Men are simply and _obviously_ superior at many things and I am too competitive to deny it. I would never be able to advance, in my own way and at my own pace, without acknowledging this, and I'd be doomed to whinging that the men must not be playing fair.
But, I learned at a young age that life is inherently unfair. This is not Heaven. Thankfully. This would be a dimestore Heaven, for sure.
I have. But, I like to go to the gym 4-5 days a week since it is only a ten minute jog from my house. That still gives me plenty of time to be productive in other, less physical, ways.
Well, it's mostly also just fun. I like weight-training, as a hobby.
It is. If I could go less and go hiking on a weekly basis that would be nice. But, there aren't many great places for that near my neighborhood.
It's also fits in great with my current routine. I've been getting more reading done lately. I've also been making progress with what equipment I'll be using for my solar setup, backup generator, mesh setup and my miniature BTC mining farm. So, it's safe to say that I'll be sticking with the gym for a while😁.
This is off-topic, but I would really like to see your answer to this.
My point of going to gym is to mitigate depression naturally. The end product doesn't matter at the end of the day. If you expect that the human body must be useful for something in mechanical terms, you'll eventually be disappointed
What are "more productive physical labor" actions that mimic what weight training does for the bones long term.
Farming, construction, heavy industry and metalwork, anything preparing for defense or rescue, forestry, mountain climbing and cross-country skiing or running, etc. I'd argue team sports are also "more productive".
But the question is not "Could you design a weight machine to train this specific thing better than some particular real-life effort?" as you probably could. The question is more: is using that weight machine productive _at all_?
Maybe, if the exercises power a generator, or if they're part of a training program for park rangers, or something.
None of the things you mention have the bone density benefits you get from weight lifting. Farmingand forestry involve lifting and moving stuff, sometimes. The point of weight lifting is that it's concentrated strenuous activity focus on a particular body part for short periods of time, if you don't think it's productive, you should look into the long term health benefits of weight lifting. Sure, some machines are just for vanity, but most free weight and barbell excersizes aren't. Weight lifting benefits a farmer and logger by making his farm chores easier and safer. Also, exercise programs are often designed to counter act the muscles that are over developed in their job, for example coders should be doing more back and legs workouts because the position of their job which is chest and shoulders.