I read a double negative perceived as: That means that spam is bad and we should fight against it. Is that your intend statement?

If that was your intended statement, and you find the original argument equivalent then do see my perspective, and that understand my intention. I am fighting against it, through the mind (non-agression) by refuting the two exceptions you proposed: fraud, coercion.

If you feel that we should not fight spam then I fail to see that perspective, and would like to hear it. Otherwise, I consider it noise.

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Yes I think spam is bad and should be fought, we're on the same page there. But I am not allowing any exceptions to the rule. The rule is conflict resolution. What you are calling exceptions are THE ethical rule. People can spam the system claiming to be a victim, but they become aggressors themselves when and where that is egregious, and the rule implies that they need to be fought too. The rule prescribes a system that is self-healing.

Doh. You responded to fast. I was still ranting 😂

I know the feeling lol! I'll read the rest now...

It could be that our misunderstanding is of a Positive (my perspective) and yours (Normative).

The legal system is anything but pure, and on the side of corruption.

Your lack of sovereignty is...

disturbing... ❤

I'm a moral realist. My ethics can be proven, it's just damn hard to convince people and would take forever. Regardless you may take note that the positive tends toward my normative system. Maybe I just know something you don't.

Also I have not said that our state-perverted institutions would, as they are now, do what I prescribe with this normative system. Nor do I linger in a vacuum only ever imagining a society that does not at present exist where the institutions overwhelmingly function this way. Your view of me would seem extremely simplistic from your assertion that I have a lack of sovereignty just from having a moral system. That's incredibly naïve.

Ok that last part is again going into information as a class vs individual copies of the information. I said property is denoted by ownership of all the information sufficient to exclusively control the resource (resource could be a bitcoin UTXO).

If someone gets a copy of that information via coercion, like breaking into your house and finding your private key, you have now lost exclusive control of that UTXO. You hold your keys, but you no longer exclusively hold your keys. Further, the thief spins up a hot wallet with your key and initiates a transaction of all the bitcoin from that UTXO into a wallet that they exclusively possess. Now it is in someone else's exclusive possession.

In both of these scenarios after the coercion has taken place, the information sufficient to exclusively control the UTXO is no longer in your possession (because holding the keys doesn't grant you the ability to stop the thief after that point, unless you manage to kick his ass and stop him in the act, to initiate an emergency vault transaction, to enlist really competent police on your side who can guarantee recovery, or some such stuff, and even then, you are inconvenienced). This is the case because aggression has taken place (aggression is coercion, I use these words interchangeably; I also consider fraud a form of aggression). This is exactly what force is good for, resolving conflicts in favor of the person not aggressing. This is the proper use of legal force.

Funny. In my fucked up sovereign brain I see the term coercion as playing the victim. No different than this meme, which is IMHO yet again, a self referencing logical fallacy.

I wish I could understand what you mean by this. Your brain definitely does think in a funny way, we frequently miss each other's meaning.

But I can gather that you (probably) think aggression does not exist, is just a weak person's claim of victimhood and refusal to take responsibility.

I see aggression as a bear, and play the strategy that I simply can't outrun it.

So what do you do instead if run? I shoot it.

No

Why not shoot it?

The context of the bear is hypothetical. So if the bear is math, then guns don't work. If the bear is (which is assuming worst case scenario) an entity more powerful than me, then aggression is a failure strategy.

Is the bear chasing you, or is it just minding its business? I thought it was chasing you for some reason lol

As a software developer, we tend to only consider worst case scenarios.

So the bear is already eating at you and you just don't do anything because you pretend it's inevitable? Weak.

If you want to keep guessing that's fine. 20 questions is fun, but there is something you are not considering in my strategy.

I also want to point out that it is not my intent to keep the strategy a secret. I apologize, but you never asked.

I would be interested to hear it. I was just too busy trying to understand your strategy amongst all your incoherent misuse of the term "aggression" to know what to ask.

After we defined the hypothetical bear as an aggressor in a worst scenario using a non aggressive strategy, I don't have to outrun the bear. I only have to outrun you.

Ok, and if you try to hurt me in so doing, I shoot you and I shoot the bear after he eats you, and you can go fuck yourself.

If instead you don't try to hurt me but merely keep running, I keep running fast enough to stay away from the bear while I gather my strength/better positioning, and then I shoot the fucking bear, with math. I'm not gonna let this thing get me without a fight. That's not aggression. That's defense. Anything else is pathetic.

Your strategy might be a good temporary strategy while you gain enough strength to even do anything, a form of self defense. To just assume it cannot be any other way though, that is not logically justified. A government bitcoin treasury and mining operation is not an all powerful god. And Natural Law is not some excuse to avoid reality. Your assumptions are.

The context of the bear is hypothetical. So if the bear is math, then guns don't work. If the bear is (which is assuming worst case scenario) an entity more powerful than me, then aggression is a failure strategy.

The bear need not remain stronger than me and those with whom I contract for defense, as the situation progresses. I win that game. And I am working to create that game, a set of institutions and social layer that supports such resolution of conflicts in favor of the firstcomer to the item owned (this is equivalent to resolving conflicts against the aggressor). I find your lack of sovereignty disturbing so I'm done with this conversation for now. GN.

GN

Before I forget, let me commit a pull request in that game you are working on. It's in a form of a checklist. I got it from a book upon request.

1. Are we solidly in our own open hearts? Do we feel unconditional love for the person with whom we are communicating?

2. Are we being completely honest?

3. Are we sure this is what we think and what we want to say?

4. Are we sure we are responding to what the other actually thinks and what he/she has actually said?

5. Are we clear of any hint of wanting to make an impression or to control or persuade the other person?

6. Are we truly listening to the other person?

7. Are we clear of energies such as accusation or complaint?

8. Is the other person completely safe with us?

9. Have we aimed our communication directly at the heart of where the other person is coming from? Does our communication show total respect?

10. Are we remaining in our hearts, even when catalyst strikes in the midst of conversation?