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nostr:nprofile1qqs8nxvpg9shg0ez0yqx4vgvlkpm6vadlu3ushjan5y5nlwkp783jqgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgqgcwaehxw309ac8yetdd96k6tnswf5k6ctv9ehx2aqpzfmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ucx0aqs4, Why do you think there can only exist unconditional love between a child and a parent and not between all, in a marital and platonic connection?

I ask this since for me, conditional love is : " I only will do this for you, if and only you do that in exchange for me. If not, I will retract it from you." This is conditional.

And why unconditional giving and receiving, between to sovereign beings, whole in their authenticity, would be unhealthy?

Surrealistic Menina 6mo ago

I will also add, that I will only act, present myself in a certain matter towards you, if and only you tick a box in my mind as how you should operate and behave. This is in my humble opinion conditional and very unhealthy.

nostr:nprofile1qqsddtl6r9dmwx22wpvr9af4lfjm4vwcmndd56e9grlnfvmsjygtzacpz4mhxue69uhkummnw3ex2mrfw3jhxtn0wfnsz9thwden5te0dp5hxapwdehhxarj9ekxzmnyqyf8wumn8ghj7am0wsh82arcduhx7mn9gqnun3 said it beautifully how in his connection love is being fed and nourished by holding space for the other when things get messy ( putting abuse aside, that's a fat no). We are all inperfect and with flaws, if we just disconnect and retreat every time something goes not accordingly with our expectations, there is no room for growth and expansion inside a connection. If we retrieve love if someone does not act how we wish, want or expect, that in itself is IMHO, abuse.

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Discussion

purrs_for_Her 6mo ago

nostr:npub1qnykqjt67cv2ux84z3anuhpsnmea3f39za52rsyzpcpvjdmgesasvkcxvz this is such a great insight~! i think many of us have a transactional view of relationships because we never really had good examples. and when two people inside a loving relationship are giving to each other, we mistake it for transaction. but one doesn't give *because* the other has given—one gives because he/she *loves*. the intention is felt.

in the past, when i would withdraw, my inner narrative was something like: "i'm not yelling, i'm not abusing. i hurt. i need space."

but what my Wife *experienced* was abuse and a type of betrayal. that disconnection, whether intentional or not, was weaponized and compounded with poor communication skills.

it wasn't until i finally understood how to love that i could consistently fulfill my role in the relationship—to stay aligned with Her. this necessitates maintaining a loving connection, even though hurt, misunderstandings, failures, etc.

Eric FJ 🪬⚡️ 6mo ago

Hey thanks for engaging thoughtfully🙏🏼. I never got a chance to respond to nostr:nprofile1qqsddtl6r9dmwx22wpvr9af4lfjm4vwcmndd56e9grlnfvmsjygtzacpz4mhxue69uhks6tnwshxummnw3ezumrpdejqz9thwden5te0wahhgtnwdaehgu3wwpshyarertrqe8's last message. I’m quite a busy guy and I can only engage so far in these online discussions before I’m needing to move back into IRL/work/etc (which happens to include being present with my amazing wife 😉).

I think in order for us to find common ground we should avoid extremes. To me, the version of conditional that you put forth there is an extreme. I agree: the way you put it sounds abusive. So let’s think of it as a spectrum from rigidly conditional (unhealthy) to self-destructively unconditional (also unhealthy).

Somewhere between the extreme conditional and unconditional is “healthy adult boundaries”. You said it yourself: abuse is a hard no. Ok great, that’s a healthy boundary.

IMO there’s lots of room within a set of reasonable healthy adult boundaries to have a deep, spiritual, kind, and forgiving relationship where you lean into one another instead of withdraw when things aren’t perfect. That’s not rigidly conditional, and it’s also not completely unconditional because there are lines both partners know they can’t cross no matter the emotional state.

To bring it full circle, in my opinion, it’s deep respect that keeps those boundaries in place as we navigate the beautiful emotional messiness of bonding with a life partner.

purrs_for_Her 6mo ago

this is a wonderful explanation here. i think there is some overlap in each perspective.

nostr:npub10xvczstpwsljy7gqd2cselvrh5e6mlerep09m8gff87avru0ryqsg2g437, do you think the conditions structure the relationship?

for me (and perhaps nostr:npub1qnykqjt67cv2ux84z3anuhpsnmea3f39za52rsyzpcpvjdmgesasvkcxvz as well? though i don't want to speak for her), i think the connection structures the relationship more so.

idk

i really appreciate the time taken for this discussion. ^^