Nostr Web Client

I need to build a business on Coracle if I want to keep working on it. One thing that makes this hard is that I refuse to make my users the product. I will not sell your data.

However, what does everyone think of a referral/ad model? Sponsored results in search, sponsored relay suggestions, etc, with an option to pay to turn them off. Is this unethical?

Of course, my ideal business model would be a freemium service — get the basics for free, pay for some bells and whistles. But that would require much more development effort to get started.

Now I'm just brain dumping, but I guess I could start a freemium model on a purely volunteer basis, and issue a badge or something for supporters, ala patreon/kickstarter?

What do you guys think?

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Discussion

Andrew 2y ago 💬 1

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I actually don't think the referral/ad model is that bad of a revenue model for products like a social network, HOWEVER, that's only if the ads don't involve:

1. Data collection on the user in order to target the ads

2. Excessive frequency of ads

3. Disruptive placement of ads in the interface that get in the way

I think at their best, ads that are done correctly and don't do those 3 things are essentially a product discovery/recommendation tool for users that also allow their nostr client to remain free.

hodlbod 2y ago

Thanks, I definitely agree. Unfortunately, once you introduce ads, there's always a slippery slope towards data collection and more disruptive ads. But as long as the software is open source, I suppose it can be cloned and cleaned.

Andrew 2y ago

Yeah that's the beauty of open protocols like Nostr. Clients that misbehave can be forked and have the crappy parts removed, or users can just switch to a dif client altogether and still keep their social network and profiles.

τέχνη 2y ago

If your note is unencrypted, it is only a matter of time before it is data mined.

All unencrypted notes are fair game for anyone and everyone to mine and abuse. You should assume an adversarial model rather than one built on good will.

petri 2y ago

The problem comes with the model. If you're tied to the model and your (paying) customers ask for better results for their money (targeting) it's hard to say no.

There will also be some players that will just do the features that attract the advertisers and give them what they want.

Similar to Gresham's Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law , your good intentions will drive you out of business or to the margin.

It's not black and white but doing it right takes some guts and firm beliefs (and maybe lowered expectations).

OpenAI is the latest example. AI for all non-profit flipped when the opportunity was too good to miss.

Derek Ross 2y ago

I'm not a Coracle user, but here's my 2 sats. I always assumed at some point we'd see clients implement ads or sponsored content somewhere. Everyone likes to eat. The key is with how it's implemented. If the ads or sponsored content are not intrusive and blend into the site, then I wouldn't mind it. The most important aspect here would be to have said ads / sponsored content go away if you are a paying or premium user. If it's not done properly then users will find another client. As you work on this and roll it out, be sure to keep your users informed like you're doing now.

Gonzalo 2y ago

I like your reply in many ways:

- Clients (and any Nostr project for that matter) need to eat, without forgetting opportunity cost for the developer(s)

- I assumed, as you did, that sooner or later clients will implement ads (tbh I hadn't thought about sponsored content, but that's gonna be a reality too, sooner or later). I never saw it as a bad thing, but what i can't stand is bad advertising/bad implementation (in your face/interrruption, etc)

- Turn off ads has got to be one of the many features that motivate an user to go premium

I believe we have to embrace monetization in one way or another, if we want the Nostr ecosystem to thrive, and not only wait for getting a scrap of Jack's money.

finch ☦️ 2y ago 💬 1

Idea: Make it paid access only.

Have users to pay for site access via LNURL, they specify any number of days worth of access for their pubkey. Allowing them to “top up” any time they’d like, similar to many VPN services.

Example: charge 100 sats per day, discounted by X% if you buy more than a month.

Give an option for lifetime membership, eventually removing this option down the road.

hodlbod 2y ago

This only works if your product is substantially different from or better than the competitors, which isn't the case right now.

halalmoney 2y ago

How about a separate “zaptivity” tab/section featuring interactive materials from sponsors and advertisers. The preview could detail what’s required and how many sats are on offer. You can dictate what sort of content you allow and ensure there’s no activity you dislike (IP tracking). Perhaps the only thing you would want to track are the number of user interactions and zaps to help you build out your business model.

Leo Wandersleb 2y ago 💬 1

I guess I have an unpopular take for you, too:

* We have a Cambrian explosion of clients right now

* Switching clients essentially friction-less

* Users are aware of which client is open source and which not and prefer the former

* Most clients are one-man shows but some are incredibly productive, churning out features like there was no tomorrow

* We promote and celebrate the openness (open source, standards that allow to switch client), so any premium features exclusive to your client will not be appreciated for long.

If you have anti-features and your product is open source, people will use the fork that doesn't have those.

The marginal cost of users is zero for the client, so charging for use is hard.

For relays though the marginal cost of users is not zero and whenever something is not free, it's easier to have a profit margin.

* You could have your client set a default relay and charge for its use past some basic onboarding use.

* Relay operators will pay for referrals. As operator of a popular instance, that could turn into a stream of income without having to maintain your own relay.

hodlbod 2y ago

You've hit the nail on the head. I think relay referrals may be a very good way to go.

Kieran 2y ago

Im in the same boat, I like how LNBits does there paid relay setup, the per MB storage cost of events is probably how i will move forward with snort relay

Mazin 2y ago 💬 3

I’ve seen this floating around but doesn’t make any sense to me. Storage cost of events is not at all the issue in terms of resource consumption.

I think individual bandwidth consumption is a much better metric of the load the user is putting on your relay.

pam 2y ago 💬 1

From how I see it it rn, diff clients seem to have diff vibe. Snort has ease of larger crowd. The rev stream can be based on tools that needs high volume of users and lower funds per person. Collectively it will be high. Coracle is diff it’s building specific tools and seems more of business centric/serious users. Iris has serious users, dev friendly and social users. I think in app or freemium may not work for you but might work for coracle and Iris. I think rev sharing with creative providers or other similar platforms might benefit you and your users.

I could be completely wrong. That’s how I’m seeing it right now

n 2y ago 💬 1

I agree with freemium model, I block ads with brave browser etc.

hodlbod 2y ago 💬 1

These ads would be nicely integrated and relevant to users, so basically features with a conflict of interest 😂

n 2y ago

I basically never see ads of any kind. However, this may not be a problem as many users are used to the advertising model.

blu 2y ago

You could also charge flexible subscriptions for usage of advanced features through the use of something like LSAT

Wojtek 2y ago

- Selling NIP-05 identifiers on coracle domain from keys creation page. You may also mark visually such profiles a little bit different than other verified profiles.

- Promoting Lightning Wallet Apps from zap page

- Selling place in list of default relays

- Selling place in list of promoted people (eg. in empty search page)

I'm not sure about anything more invasive.