It's so weird to see my "anarchist" and "libertarian" friends become wannabe tyrants. Makes you wonder if they ever really had those values or if they were just mad that they weren't the ones in power and were waiting for their turn.
Discussion
Human nature. We’re not so different from apes.
And in which direction would you like humanity to go?
For the better of course, but humanity perpetually seeks progress, yet our essential nature remains tethered to primal instincts. We pride ourselves on cultural refinement and distance from barbarism, particularly in the modern West, but beneath the surface, we are fundamentally unchanged. The patterns of exploitation and violence that once defined ancient civilizations persist, albeit in disguised forms. Slavery still exists, rebranded and veiled within systemic frameworks, and the notion of human sacrifice lingers, cloaked in subtler, socially accepted guises. Civilization evolves outwardly, yet the core of human behavior remains strikingly consistent, echoing a timeless truth about the human condition.
the libertarian view of property rights seems so noble until you dive into what some of them consider property...
Just means they aren’t actually libertarian. Libertarian is an idea, the people corrupting it are just your regular humans. Same goes with any political, religious, etc. leanings, no?
hmmm
isn't this just the "no true scotsman" fallacy?
Ah jump to the fallacy bullshit logic arguments instead of just responding to my actual point. Very nice.
i mean, i understand your frustration, but isn't that essentially your point?
that the libertarian ideology is pure and the people who "corrupt" are not (or should not be) true representatives of it. and that this happens in other collectives (religion, politics, etc.).
"...hardening of the moral arteries is as damaging to the consensual morality of society as the "anything goes" anarchy against which it protests. It is a distortion of moral forces, a coarsening into self-righteousness. The erosion of morality, the belief that ethical choices are purely a matter of of private preference leads to hedonism that is reckless of consequence"
All human progress depends upon the authority of the competent (and those who far exceed the competent). There are surely many different systems that could achieve that end, but none of them are egalitarian, and all of them involve minimizing the authority of the incompetent.
Human progress depends on human cooperation.
https://freemansperspective.com/i-like-jordan-peterson-but-hes-wrong/
Thanks for the article; it contains much truth. I read Sir Arthur Keith years ago, and his great contribution was to show that human evolution is not so much evolution of individuals, but of human groups (tribes, nations, races), which necessarily implies cooperation. I don't see this as contradicting what I said about competence, though. We cannot be led -- in any field -- by average Walmart shoppers, nor will we be. Any pretense that we are (such as "democacy") is just a cover for evil and knavery behind the scenes.
We all should be leading ourselves.
We should all have the option to lead ourselves***
Not everyone will or should. It would be bad for many individuals and for societal progress on the whole.
Well, your values are apparently very different from mine.
If someone is not leading their own life, a tragedy has occurred.
I guess so 🤷♂️ I bet in a way that's less distinct than it seems. Still fun to think about though.
I just believe having freewill necessarily means you also have the optionality to delegate whatever responsibility you want to another consenting human - a.k.a a "leader".
Paradoxically, asserting that doing so means that the follower no longer has freewill is, in fact, a denial of their freewill.
I can follow if I want. I can lead if I want.
Power Corrupts, Absolute power corrupts absolutely
In what way do they want to be tyrants?
I lost a number of anarchist friends a decade ago when they got sucked into the Stephan Molyneaux cult of white nationalism.
when fighting monsters. be aware you dont become a monster yourself.
