Nostr isn’t free for some of us until it’s free for all of us. And to do that we need to build a space where people and communities of users can set and enforce community norms for themselves. If we don’t build these tools then we’ll not be able to make Nostr for everybody. Nobody’s saying you need to use moderation labels or relays that take down reported content. Just that for people who want them, they can use them. We need good tools for self management. Authoritarians take and hold power because they claim that they’re the only one to keep people safe. If we don’t build in tools on Nostr to help us keep ourselves safe, then people will think their only option is to use a system with opaque unaccountable centralized control over the platfrom.

That’s why I do the work on nostr:npub12m2t8433p7kmw22t0uzp426xn30lezv3kxcmxvvcrwt2y3hk4ejsvre68j and other projects to provide tools for trust, safety, and moderation on a permissionless open protocol.

And if you don’t believe harassment happens, please listen to people like nostr:npub19vvkfwy9mcluhvehw7r56p4stsj5lmx4v9g3vgkwsm3arpgef8aqsrt562 who helped organize the first Nostr conference in her experience: nostr:note10c90rf00lttrxdvn2q6creqn0u274r9g2qz967wqgvm2myxlgz6sjmdrsv

Or look at what was said to me today: nostr:note14vmyqnz4mgj06fghjjy0ppv53dfexpzzz37ua4z3mmaf33nnf98q742jd4

Either we figure out a way to goven ourselves without centralized control or we’ll end up with that centralized control we’ve been fighting against.

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Concuerdo, deben existir las herramientas y que cada quien las use o no a su favor.

Pero si sería fantástico que para los usuarios siempre sea claro y transparente como funciona.

"Nostr isn't free until we [build tools to censor the people speaking freely in ways we don't like]"

Go to reddit, bluesky, or the fediverse if you want a moderator.

Here, no one is stopping you from building your own relay that censors whatever you don't like. But also no one will use it if it does

I think the point is just give people the tools to choose

Shut up and come back when you have some empathy

“Nostr isn’t free for some of us until it’s free for all of us.”

This is ideological nonsense.

It’s free for anyone to use on the terms of the protocol. If you don’t like how others are using it that’s a you problem, not a freedom problem, not a ‘free for some’ problem, a you problem.

How can you solve the small group of psychopaths that exist everywhere?

My freedom doesn't depend on someone else's freedom.

Nice! This is the work required to make any community space work.

Definitely agree with nostr:npub1wmr34t36fy03m8hvgl96zl3znndyzyaqhwmwdtshwmtkg03fetaqhjg240 and support tools people can CHOOSE to use if THEY want to or feel like it to make this a better experience. Idk why people assume freedom of speech does not also imply freedom of listening. Just because someone is “free” to say whatever they want, does not mean everyone should be forced to hear it. There are bad apples in every bunch and I can confirm that there are some bad apples here whose aim is to hurt, intimidate, or even scare as much as possible with language.

When I’ve talked to certain people about this, I gotten a few, “just mute them and toughen up” and “you’re too soft”. I’m not talking about friendly trolling though… I’m talking about legitimate hate coming from miserable people who only get fulfillment by shocking or insulting.

If I wanna continue to be “soft” and limit my exposure to legitimately negative and combative users/language, I should be able to if I am truly sovereign here.

Fort dommage tout ceci entre adulte ...nous ne pouvons pas continuer dans des modes de communication enfant-adulte ni celui de sauveur-victime ni celui des adulés- rejetés , le Respect est de l'autre quequ'il soit se doit d'être la primauté, la bienséance, une certaine capacité à se mettre à la place de l'autre qui peut être un frère, une sœur, un ami, ou juste l'inconnu qu'il nous faut découvrir, apprendre à connaître naturellement en tant qu'être vivant surtout humain que l'on suppose être le plus intelligent et créatif au monde ..merci bon dimanche à tous vous ..

Je fus choquée puisque Angela depuis bien avant l'organisation de nostrica est sur nostr, le matin elle était l'une des seuls y compris à interagir malgré nos divers créneaux, me rappelle son aide via des nostr notamment pour ses résas pour ceux qui devaient s'y rendre, notamment zach qui doit être horrifié voire outré s'il lit nos échanges..

Je vous propose tous cet outil sur la communication Neurolinguistique de plus accessible, si maîtrisé vous m'en ferez des retours ...c'est le outil que je conseillerai à apprendre pour soi, dans nos diverses humaines et un certain recul sur tout quite à être Manu en termes de philosophie de vie .. En famille ou entre amis vous jouez avec de manière...

J'ai des collègues qui ne regrettent pas et d'ailleurs l'usent maintenant dans la sphère personnelle...comme support éducatif avec leurs progéniture ou dans leurs vies de couples ...

On a tendance à oublier qu'on n'est pas tous pareils et nous ne sommes pas tous égaux face à certaines difficultés voire à des maux, déviances liés à chaque parcours de vie socioprofessionnel 🫂🕊️

What's stopping you from muting?

Why do you want broad censorship tactics?

I do mute. That’s why I never respond to you lol. No matter what I say, you probably aren’t gonna like it considering I’ve never really interacted with you, you just reply to things I’ve said with criticism.

Why do you want to tools to not exist anyways? Isn’t that just another form of censorship? If you know so much more and this tool is such a waste of the developer’s time, then build something better instead of continuously picking apart semantics to your favor in an imaginary debate I never got an invite to.

Umm this was my point, you only unmuted me for drama not for the merit of what I'm saying.

I don't care if anyone replies I just put my 2sats out in the void bc fuck it I'm on nostr.

Who am I anyways?

If devs want to build, they will.

I was wondering what was going on 🫂 I wasn’t sure what people were talking about. Spent the day pretending to be a dinosaur with my nephew and now I’m a human again I’m all discombobulated.

I completely agree with both of you 🫂💯💜

If someone was rude to me in the street I would walk past as if they were invisible. I’m very particular with how I choose to waste my time. I mute, but I understand there will be others who might need more. And this is an option which they would have to go out of their way to seek out. From my understanding it’s just a bot that reports to no one - there’s no headmaster on the other end waiting to whip the back of our hands with rulers or kick us off nostr. Nobody has that power, right? They can use it to inform themselves or not, it’s up to them.

Really? Perhaps people are misinterpreting how “reporting” actually works in this case? Either that or I am just an idiot, but two things can be true at once 😂

Yeah I think - from my understanding you have to connect to a specific relay to even see the bot - I never see it - and it just tags certain notes as inappropriate or something, not 100% sure 🤔

You’re not an idiot at all 😂🤣🫂🫂💜

So if I personally didn’t want to use it, I don’t have to and won’t even see it in my feed? And reporting just means: report to the relay and nothing to do with reporting to nostr as a whole, taking away privileges, or banning others?

Correct, though, the relay admin could technically pull the content or choose to not further relay the note/other stuff.

What Beave said 🫂💯

Anyone can do anything bad, doesn’t mean they will 🫂 we gotta give each other more credit on here 😭 I know I know, don’t trust, verify. But I can’t help it, I have faith in nostr and the people on it.

That's because you have a warm and loving mindset, Eshara.

I don't understand it, but, many people have very good intuition, and I think that many people should learn to listen to that intuition more, though, not blindly.

Besides, you'll find what you go looking for, almost always. If you want to have a feed full of warm and fuzzy stuff, you can build that here in a much more genuine fashion. That's why I've stayed. (To be clear, I'm not looking for warm and fuzzies all the time, I have a wider net to cast.)

There is one thing that I'm a touch confused about: if individuals can gain control over the protocol based upon how much they get zapped or how much they influence they have over it's feeds, doesn't that make it no different than centralized networks like Twitter or Instagram or whatever?

They don't gain control. It doesn't matter if you get zapped a trillion times. You can't control everything or really anything other than what's on your relay or what you see on your client.

Now, if you have someone that's popular, then, sure, they can influence things and maybe get something hinky done, but... It's hard to do that with the NOSTR protocol.

In the long-term, wouldn't that just lead it to a more subsidized format of the protocol?

It could, and in some ways it is, with grant money flowing in from big names. But, if anyone has the skills, they can make their own stuff to work. That's the power of a protocol vs. a platform.

🫂🫂🫂

It's spam at best, & a stepping stone to be used by relays to ingest data on who to censor.

I do understand the worry 🙏🏽 but nothing like that has happened. And if it does happen, wouldn’t it be the relay owners wrong doing, not Rabbles?

If someone buys a cooking knife, and uses it to slice their partner into bits, is that the knife manufacturers fault? Despite the knife’s actual purpose being for something as innocent as cooking?

I do genuinely see your point of view 🙏🏽 but I have to disagree

I'm not here looking to blame people, I'm here to give my 2sats on the premise of wasting dev hours on this stuff.

Building something requires a long-term effort & the energy we put into things should have a worthwhile output.

If someone brings a knife to a situation that requires a shovel...they might just be looking for drama.

I do appreciate hearing it 🙏🏽 but isn’t this an open protocol? So anyone can build anything on it? Isn’t that why nostr is so brilliant ?

That’s like an artist going up to another artist and saying their art sucks and was a waste of time cos you dont find meaning in it. Just feels irrational to me.

I have a feeling you and I can go back and forth with this for a while, but my intention wasn’t to try to change your opinion, I was just simply expressing mine 🫂

agree to disagree 🤝

Anyone can build anything on it, but we can't even tag everyone in our following list yet.

Everyone has different passions here🙏🏽 And free will.

Are you passionate about censorship resistance?

I thought you were upset with how devs were spending their time? 🤔

Yes. And so is Rabble, clearly, or he wouldn’t try to include more people by getting them off of the rubbish that’s available.

This is my last note on this because I have a feeling you will never agree to disagree and I made that choice about two notes ago.

I was just asking a genuine question, it has everything to do with how devs spend their time.

Getting more people on here isn't going to work if you can't even tag people, they'll give up.

Moreover, the relay situation is a mess & hasn't been figured out to the point where mass adoption could be ingested.

Meanwhile, you want censorship relays which could easily be coopted by governments to effectively shadowban people without you ever knowing.

Bitcoin in its infancy was too weak to take on the world, so Satoshi lobbied AGAINST WikiLeaks using it publicly.

There are many factors to censorship resistance, and you guys might need to humble yourselves - which usually isn't a trait of leftists so I'll agree to disagree 🤣💜

Find me at a nostr meet up and we’ll discuss this like adults. Until then, STACK SATS AND STAY HUMBLE 🤙🏽

I understand what you're conveying, but it won't foster the outcome you're looking for.

The only way people can filter others out is to block/mute them & keep it that way.

For ex, I blocked your stupid reporting bot because it's useless. It's basically spam & Nostr doesn't need that.

Moderating your own feed can be done at the client level without relays ever getting involved.

This way relays can be ubiquitous & user agnostic.

I’ve got a cool idea. We do proof of personhood, then use a ZKP to sign each message with your personhood. Then if someone sells their personhood, you can ban that identity from your network and it will also flag any other identities that personhood creates.