I seem to have upset some folks over on Bluesky by pointing out that it’s supposed to be a decentralized network and people can’t rely on the company to simply delete the accounts and content they don’t want on the network.
I think we need to solve the same issues on both nostr and bluesky but the communities of early adopters are coming from such different perspectives. 
Wouldn’t a social graph solve these issues?
You see content from people you follow and the people they follow.
If you don’t like something, click to see which connection it’s coming from and unfollow.
Global doesn’t even need to exist in a sense that anyone can see everything there is to see. Make people follow a few people in on onboarding - I believe that is what Twitter did. Probably to solve the same problem?
BYOA - Build Your Own Algo
I mean I agree that’s part of it. That’s why we designed #[3] to rely so much on the social graph.
I think there is a space for content warnings and reports and then a vetting and response to those reports. Be that a relay operator or group of users. Then I could choose to use a moderation list but that’s my choice. Relays could choose what they’ll host.
The assumption amongst many bluesky users is that the company making the protocol will be able to provide a trust and safety regime similar to a centralized platform.
Will nos social solely be using this 'social graph' method? Or will it also do a bit of moderation?
Maybe it seems to me like Nostr sort of needs a transparency of clients's (and relays?) political views lol. Where does my client stand on topic x. I don't want them to censor me.
Or is this off? I'm very likely wrong cos I don't know anything
It's not really about Bluesky users seeing accounts they don't like when joining. It's more that one person finds someone they don't like and then essentially brigade with demands to have them banned. And it has happened already with admin/mods giving in.
I sympathize and understand where they’re coming from but it’s kind of like how the generals always fight the last war type of thing.
Even if you do think banning people is the right solution, it isn’t going to work for these new emerging protocols.
Why do you sympathize with this sick mentality?!?
I mean I’m no so keen on people commenting on my posts saying shit like “die faggot”. So I get why they wish they could just ban some people. But that’s neither an effective nor practical solution.
Just like you can choose which relays to use and who to follow, you should be able to choose who you want in your community. But that doesn’t mean those people can’t also use the same protocols and exclude you. Being able to have doors, fences, and some reasonable privacy is a good thing.
People should get a spine and don’t treat words as them being violence. You should have the possibility to block whomever you want though; if that is what you’re saying I agree.
Yes but I also don’t want to have to do all the blocking myself so I’d like to be able to pay someone who does that work for me. Obviously I’d choose someone who would make decisions I’d agree with. You might not want to delegate that at all or would choose totally different values. That’s fine.
I don’t think blocking is enough. You can be mentally tough and ignore it - especially if it doesn’t actually insult you in any meaningful way, but people who get this type of abuse all the time shouldn’t even have to see it. It only takes a second to ruin the day or build up over time to do psychological harm.
Being tough one time is not enough.
Plus, you might be able to manage it as an adult and brush it off like nothing happened, but there are people less mature and more sensitive for various reasons - maybe they were abused in the past.
Point being, people shouldn’t have to deal with hate speech when we can develop tools to limit it without cutting the individual off completely from having access to the digital public town square, not matter how vile they are.
Hate speech is just speech you disagree with
Murderers are just humans who murder.
If you’ve got a real point I’m listening.
I think 'hate speech' has a lot of room for interpretation, compared to 'murder', no?
Not in traditional sense, no.
Not sure I follow, what is the traditional meaning here? And are you distinguishing this from. More modern interpretation of 'hste speech'?
Look up the definition. That’s the sense I’m referring to.
Your personal interpretation is just that.
This? https://www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/what-is-hate-speech
There's also a lot of scope here for interpretation within this p nebulous description, I think by the sounds of it you'd disagree(?).
Not sure what I’m looking at there. Honestly I’m bored of this topic and would rather move on. Id say dm me if you want to discuss further but I don’t even want to talk in dms 😂
This kind of topic is best discussed in person. I’m on mobile and get tie d of having to fix typos on a topic I don’t even care to discuss in the first place.
I understand lol. I was just making a small point. I think I'm sort of on the same page of not wanting a discussion. It's been done to death lol.
But I would say yes, there is room for intereptation.
You (seem) to be saying no.
We'll leave it as that lol. 🫨
That’s not really what I’m saying. I could write a page on this to explain but I really don’t want to 😂
I think I'm totally lost then lol. I thought you literally just a couple replies ago said that lol.
Nevermind lolol let's agree to not understand each other lololol
I can see why you’d think that. I’m just too lazy to do a proper reply. 😞 now leave me alone 😤 😂
🫂🫂🤗
I was going to read the conversation but now I got all this free time cause you guys didn’t feel like talking!!!!
Don’t waste your time. It’ll be bickering back and forth over definitions, misunderstanding and half-thoughts. Some topics are best left to in-person discussion.
Damn i love you people
Whatya mean by you people, Dan??
Lol
Good morning 🌞
Plebs I bet
You are all my people, i love you all pushing keys or glass screens. Shoes on our feet and heads full of brain.
What kind of shoes?
Gee I wonder how that got your attention. I fancy tevas and shoes with a rocking keel. I could never walk a day in your shoes, i hope you could travel for days in mine ;)
I concur with you. There are many other ways to get rid of it.
I think people should make friends and have communities in real life.
If you’re getting your social interactions from the internet, you’re going to have a bad time. No matter how many convoluted and well-intentioned things “we” implement to prevent that.
Let the internet be what it’s best at: a cold arena of dangerous ideas. Save your emotional life for people you can touch.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Spinelessness east is the real disease
Good fences makes good neighbors. So I have heard
Perhaps admins should not be human
You like using bluesky? Worth is at all to try it out? I haven’t yet
I think being on Bluesky is actually important for folks building things for nostr. Because it’s a parallel project in so many ways. There is a lot to learn, both things to do and things to avoid.
Mostly where you should be spending time with social media is where are the people you want to talk to, see, and be part of a community with.
Alot of people are being drawn to bluesky right now- good to watch. The he funny part is that getting on nostr is so easy- this place from day one has the nonexclusive vibe. @t protocol/bluesky is trying to feel like web2.0- still do not have invite and find I am increasingly unsure I'd even want to- I think it's the "not musk" twitter but old users will not actually like the decentralisation.
haha theres a chance nostr:npub1grd6pp385tevd8psx9nxzjd4vutg7pycjj49cs3q8gujpg77sjps4752zz returning to bsky
Soon...
What is the point with a decentralised network If people on the decentralised network want to ban speech?!?!🥳
They should stay in their trigger free zones by themselves and only hear things they like. Stupid fuckers
Agree, and I do think some stuff should be forbidden on both nostr and everywhere, even in a “freedom of speech” perspective, like nazi symbols or children being influenced to do mass shoot at school. Not only a personal choice of what someone wants to see on their feed or not.
But I also think that should be a collective decision, not only relaying on the company. That would be the ideal way in my opinion, even though more difficult.
impossible to do on nostr. Anyone can run a server and people can fetch notes from that personal server. l
without censorship resistance, the easily offended ruin everything.
“the easily offended” you mean minorities?
Your bias is showing. Careful.
Careful with what?
Making assumptions about hidden meaning in what others write and writing them back in a reply. Only shows your biases, not the ones you think the original writer might have.
No I mean people who feign offense to divide people and gain power.
Either way, I gave you the technical answer. No censorship possible. Anyone can host their own notes. You may choose to ignore them.
I also forgot to add. It's incredibly messed up for you to say that minorities are easily offended. I know lots of immigrants, they are thick skinned, salt of the earth, hard working members of society. Idk why you would disparage them like this.
#[1] I tried to read your post on Habla that you shared on Bluesky but it didn’t open for me. I just got a blank page in two different browsers. Is there another place I can find this? https://bit.ly/43mu64Q
Are you on a mobile device and using light mode?
I think you know we well enough to know I don’t use fucking light mode #[3] 😂
🤣🤣 I only asked because #[4] had a similar issue of Habla showing a blank screen and his screenshot showed light mode. Both the link he shared and the one you shared show fine for me and I’m on dark mode, but sounds like that’s not the common factor anyway 🤷♂️
nostr:note1xmwssamzxyn7nlv3r9dmhd33p849z3fq5ytmtqwzpu0nk283k9zqvglmhx
😂
This-is-the-way.gif
Seems like most people on Bluesky are looking for a Twitter clone and haven’t thought about decentralization. I do wonder how AT Protocol with presumably a small number of Big Graph Services will handle banning users vs. hiding through moderation filters. Fewer big servers means less flexibility to ban, potentially. (Haven’t been able to load the Habla post yet.)
You’re the only person I see going hammer and tongs about moderation on nostr. Are you sure you’re not projecting the importance of it to this community?
Isn't this the pro-censorship guy lol? Am I getting confused lolol. The guy building the pro-censorship client nos social?
I don’t know if he’s pro-censorship but he’s certainly claimed that Users want more moderation and it’s necessary for Nostr to grow.
Rabble can answer for himself but I just don’t see where he’s garnering this consensus from because other than some early spam (DMs & dickpics), I’ve seen practically no calls for more moderation here.
you aren’t confused, they are. On both sides on bluesky, there’s unfortunately a ton of people just trying to use their privileged early access to clout farm, and they just think it’s another social media service. They aren’t there as genuine beta testers of either a protocol or a reference client. Gotta take their clout farming with a grain of salt.
Im with you. They decides who gets on their platform, and they remove a few users who said GMs too much.
I don’t think YOU upset people on BlueSky any more than anyone else did that was pointing out it’s aiming to be a federated network.
