Nostr Web Client

I'll say this as nicely as I can: it's not easy to run a bitcoin node in the sense that it's not that much easier than many other popular blockchains.

From the moment you need:

* 1 TB of space

* >12 hours for IBD

* Stable fast reliable internet

* decent always-on computer (phone or raspi won't cut it)

...you can't claim it's "easy".

It's something only passionate people will ever do, that's why there's at best 50k nodes.

For this to change, we would need something like a lightweight node android app with optimizations such as ZeroSync and UTreeXO. It could even be integrated inside a wallet.

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Discussion

Zach⚡️ 1y ago

What other nodes have you had experience running? Other than direct Bitcoin forks which are easier simply due to less usage.

sommerfeld 1y ago

Only monerod but lopp had a nice blogpost comparing various IBDs

tohrxyz 1y ago

Monero node is easier in sense that most laptops ship with 512gb ssd, so 360gb is fine for blockchain

Also monero node is more useful as basic daemon provides direct rpc for wallets to connect to

Bitcoin requires electrum/electrs to run on top or bitcoind in comparison

sommerfeld 1y ago

TBF all monero wallets I've tried have shitty UX where you need to wait for it to sync everytime you open them

ede3d957... 1y ago

Ever run your own LWS?

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

Yea, they really need to get background sync working correctly. Probably one of the biggest complaints.

Cake Wallet had it for awhile, and when it worked it was great, but too many bugs so they had to take it down for now...

Zach⚡️ 1y ago

Monero is less space efficient compared to Bitcoin, especially when compared to the amount of economic activity both conduct.

I don’t think there is a blockchain in existence which is easier to run a full node for than Bitcoin (aside for lesser used Bitcoin clones).

CaqKa 1y ago

Litecoin?

Doge?

Zach⚡️ 1y ago

Both are direct Bitcoin clones with less total usage than Bitcoin. Dogecoin was made in 2 hours by directly forking Bitcoin, and Litecoin is also close to a carbon copy.

In fact, Litecoin is so similar that a few Bitcoin upgrades have been tested on Litecoin first as a trial to see if there are bugs or compatibility issues.

CaqKa 1y ago

Yes. Like lightning.

Agi Choote 1y ago

tohrxyz 1y ago

My point was storage space and usefullness now.

360gb + direct rpc connection to wallets right out ot the box

franzap 1y ago

Current form of IBD is a real problem

⚡️2FakTor⚡️ 1y ago

The good things make you wait

sommerfeld 1y ago

Let's make it take 100 years on purpose then 🫠

Soul Reaver 1y ago

"raspi won't cut it"

Are you so sure?

The BTCPay server I'm running on rpi5 claims otherwise.

Also there's pruned node option, so you don't need 1TB.

sommerfeld 1y ago

Won't cut it because:

* it's not as cheap as before. For the current retail price, you can buy decent x86 servers

* you can run it on a pi, I did it up until recently, but it's a shitty node and a shitty experience and bound to break in less than 2 years

You can't run an indexer or block explorer with a pruned node.

Soul Reaver 1y ago

""shitty node and a shitty experience and bound to break in less than 2 years" can you expand on that? Mine looks to be running fine for about a month now on rpi5. Haven't encountered it "breaking". IDK what you mean by node breaking.

sommerfeld 1y ago

Storage is usually the first thing to go bust, specially if using an microSD card for the OS. But even USB connected storage is slightly better but still shitty.

I'm speaking from my personal experience and many others. You're just running it for 1 month. I was like you before, check my earliest notes, I would die defending my rpi.

Mabardino 🍀 1y ago

+1 here

Soul Reaver 1y ago

Well yes, Micro SD can't stand to this, that's a very well known thing. I've been only running BTC node for a month but I've been using USB SSD powered multiple rpi for years, and been running a Monero node for the last 10 months w/o any problems. I'm using 4 for different reasons like Home Assistant, remote VPN and seed box, n8n instance, Monero and BTC nodes, media/Samba/Plex server etc. They've been pretty reliable overall. That's why I asked. So, I didn't start using these yesterday, or a month ago. Wondered what's the thing you encountered that I haven't in years on multiple different rpi and use cases.

You keep saying it breaks or it's shity, but not mentioning what breaks or what's shitty exactly? USB HDD speeds? Overall system reliability? Are the HDD enclosures controllers dying on you? Is it the cable? Is it the USB port? Is it the operating system? Is it the lack of AArch64 software support? Cooling? Processing power? Ram? What is it? I'm no fanatic of any SBC, just trying to understand why the most popular SBC that I've been using w/o problems is bad for this purpose.

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

For what Raspis are going for now, it's just worth way more bang for buck to buy a used laptop Thinkpad or used mini business desktop like a ThinkCentre or Optiplex. Saw one the other day for $60 with 16gb ram, i5, and 1 TB SSD. You can typically find them sub $100

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

I knew I shouldve jumped on it. It's gone now 😅

Soul Reaver 1y ago

This's a common theme on the internet.

Person A says rpi is bad for purpose X.

I ask why.

People start commenting that there's better compute for similar price.

Except it's not answer to what I asked. My question isn't trying to discover best compute for pi price, it's trying to discover what's bad about pi for purpose X.

"Why pi is bad for purpose x?" and "Can I get better compute for purpose X w/ similar price point?" are different questions.

sommerfeld 1y ago

I gave you a straight answer: storage is suboptimal and fragile, not my fault if you don't believe me.

If you want more reasons:

* aarch64 is a shitty architecture: bootloaders are different for each hardware and are super proprietary, hard to configure and just terrible in general compared to standard x86 bootloaders.

* there's less software support overall for aarch64

* rpis heavily depend on proprietary firmware for most basic functionality, almost nothing is upstreamed to the linux kernel

Soul Reaver 1y ago

"storage is suboptimal and fragile, not my fault if you don't believe me."

I accept defeat, I'll assume you think rpi puts a Demonic curse on the same SSD that's used everywhere when you connect it to rpi, given no other form of explanation is provided despite asking multiple times/ways.

tuco 1y ago

My 8Gb RAM rp4 with a 2T ssd is serving a bitcoin node, a monero node among other things. Also access to it via VPN and tor from anywhere (only the btc node so far). True you have to spend a bit polishing it but has been running since last October. And the OS is not even the fastest but solid rock (OpenBSD)

CaqKa 1y ago

Thats still a lot more nodes than the euro has. Like 5 orders of magnitude more.

sommerfeld 1y ago

That's a very low bar and besides the point.

CaqKa 1y ago

Besides the feeling of thats a low bar. What are the objective arguments for thats a low bar?