The amount of withdrawals we do is insane.
CashApp sold $7.11 billion worth of bitcoin to users in 2022.
The overwhelming majority appears to have been withdrawn to self custody.
Full Shareholder Letter: https://s29.q4cdn.com/628966176/files/doc_financials/2022/q4/Block_Shareholder-Letter-4Q22.pdf
Discussion
seriously impressive 🤙
Impressive? but all of it is government kyc sats not self sovereign. It doesn’t matter if it’s self custody it is still government sats. Kyc is forever
Asking permission is seeking denial.
Wash it with Zaps
You cannot wash kyc no matter how hard you try.
Yourtotal amount that acquired from centralized exchange is forever known by government 3rd party entity.
If you send to Lightning, then back out to a different Bitcoin address, using non-KYC wallets, it's pretty difficult to track, no? Unless someone's closely tracking your IP address and your Bitcoin transactions.
Well, they may know when and how much we acquired, but they’ll never figure out if we spent it. Run your own node, coinjoin, and use lightning.
And does the government know I just tipped you 500 sats, whoever you are?
They don’t need to know your micropayments. You are on the list and own certain amount of sats. And if you funded your LND or C-lighting eclairs etc.. onchain they can track that.
How did you fund your lightning wallet one must make an onchain tx. That’s how they know your on chain print is forever kyc. Your id is on chain forever.
Sure. To be clear, I'm no expert by any means. However, after you have your sats in a Lightning wallet, aren't they much harder to track? For instance, couldn't you transfer to a Muun wallet via Lightning, then from Muun to a brand new onchain Bitcoin address? Wouldn't this be pretty hard to track?
Again you don’t get it! Doesn’t matter how crazy obfuscation you do your total amount acquired from kyc entities is known forever, unless you sell that back to that centralized exchange to close links to your identity and start over with kyc free sats that is the only way to get rid of kyc.
What if you buy kyc and then withdraw the sats to addresses that are never yours. To pay someone back or something
That doesn’t change the fact that it is still was acquired from kyc entity. Kyc cannot be undone. The only way is to send it back to kyc exchange you got it from.
You know what else gov knows? Your name and your address, and if they wanted they will come and get you and throw you in jail for no reason. Does that mean you should go run to the mountains to not be in society?
If gov can assume you have those KYC sats 5 years later, they can also assume you have sats without buying it from KYC services and punish you same way as others
Point is unless you're removed from society it's all a cat and mouse game and your utopia world of "no KYC sats" is not much better
I think it’s a good idea to support services like Bisq and Robosats and if you don’t have one already to build a non-KYC stack. But agreed that you’ll never eliminate the threat of being tossed in the gulag by our government overlords
Coinjoin is not going to help because they know your Tx0 into a coinjoin. They may not known after the mix but your total amount will always be known.
joins and whirls baby, joins and whirls
Total amount you acquired from kyc is known. whirls and joins is not going to get rid of that fact.
the government also knows how much I’ve earned if I pay taxes but in both cases, they do not know whether, nor how, I might have spent it. Non-KYC if you can go KYC free, v-4-v, split bills and reimburse with clean sats… slowly slowly the links will fade
KYC or non KYC doesn’t matter. All sats are fungible. Don’t like your government’s bitcoin policy? It’s very easy to pack up and leave with your bitcoin.
What do you think about coinjoin, Whirlpool, or even lightning as obfuscation mechanisms?
Cash App is the perfect on ramp to hyperbitcoinization
This is an area where we'd like to continue to push on the customer experience of buying, then withdrawing to self custody and make it fast as heck, seamless and much more magical than the state of the art address copying and pasting.
I wish you many more withdrawals. And I mean that in a good way.
Do you think the coinbase ETH L2 news is bullish for cash app?
Seems like a great opportunity for cash app as coinbase further doubles down on ponzi crap and has to put up barriers to entry for users to get around regulatory risk.
38% Coinbase revenue from staking and usdc. Coinbase revenue -65%. Cashapp -25%. If bitcoiners abandoned Coinbase, it'll go under.
