My personal conclusion is: #lightning is more private than #monero.
Ahh, but I can't transact high values in lightning! I still can't, still...
Discussion
You can't transact any value in Monero, because, who are you going to transact with? 😂
I've been thinking about this too, the liquidity of the monero network is low.
Nobody accepts it and nobody wants it.
You really asking?
[Spend Monero]
-monerica.com (massive directory)
-moneromarket.io
-kycnot.me/services (digital services)
-and darknet markets (maybe you've heard of them)
[Monero -> Gift Cards]
-coincards.com
-buy.cakepay.com
-coinsbee.com
-allark.io
Show me your bitcoin list
Are you trying to say that shirtcoin is accepted at more places than #Bitcoin is? Lol, wake up, shill.
No, I'm asking where is your list. I hear this a lot but don't ever see receipts.
Receipts? Are you slow or something? There's a sovereign country that adopted #Bitcoin as legal tender. Go to McDonalds or Starbucks in El Salvador and you'll be able to see the receipts.
Last time I checked, your constantly hardforking shirtcoin ain't accepted in these.
You mean Chivo custodial wallet country? The one where they banned any other competing cryptos using the state? Free market!😂
Still waiting on those receipts.
No retard. I mean the country I can pay with any #Bitcoin wallet.
Majority of the places on your lists, except Bitcoin too. I gave you a country, all I see is cope of a shirtcoin retard.
I have to go all the way to a McDonalds in El Salvador to use McBitcoins in my McCustodial Chivo wallet.
You don't like #bitcoin ? I noticed that it doesn't have an LN address to receive #zap.
He likes to use #Bitcoin for marketing the shirtcoin of his. Like every other shill out there.
I bet you can't say one bad thing about Bitcoin. Dishonest hack
One bad thing about Bitcoin:
It uses too little energy still.
Thanks for proving me right. If you can't criticize any aspect of Bitcoin you shouldn't be taken seriously.
I just did, but you're sipping too much dumbfuckjuice to think past your first emotional response.
Just look at the other point you made about hardforks, you have no idea what you're 🦜 about.
You're being cheeky, that isn't a real criticism.
What point that I made about hardforking do you have an issue with? Lets hear it
What point? You're pretending that hardforks are fair. They are not. It's always a decision at the top (centralized), the users have to follow or being kicked out.
Sell your #Bitcoin if you want to pretend your shirtcoin is better.
He knows it's not better, trying to convince you to use it as a transactional currency is how he's convincing himself.
Better in what way? As a speculative NGU SoV? Bitcoin has Monero beat.
As a private, fungible, cheap digital cash (refer to white paper)? Monero has Bitcoin beat
You mean a fake copy of the absolute digital scarcity? Sell all your #Bitcoin and buy the beat 🤙💜
That would be a good argument against me if it wasn't a strawman. I use what is good for the job. Not an emotional ball of cope like yourself that thinks public chains are more private than Monero. LUL
There you have it, retard. Even you know that #Bitcoin is the absolute digital scarcity and use that shirtcoin for its temporary privacy feature because you don't know how to correctly use #LN
LUL 🤙💜
You are the naive users they speak of
lmao
note16u84t56a3e9ay42msc57h9f0x26hh44rtkfj0rtsra447amcn4lsfrhwk5
Moving the goalposts aging, retard? Keep attacking #Bitcoin while you hold it.
LMAO 🤙💜
Exactly. What point? Shishi never clarified
It would only be unfair if you couldn't op-out. You can opt-out at any moment.
What you want is for a network of users to conform around you. Other users don't owe you shit. It's like forcing others to remain compatible with your shitty CD player at their own expense. Don't like it? Sell or fork off. No one is forcing you to use it.
Your logic is completely at odds with a free market.
Your logic is correct when you're talking about a centrally planned coin. #Bitcoin is decentralized - that's why we need soft forks. You can opt out of the new changes while still using #Bitcoin network.
Opting out of your hardforking shirtcoin means being kicked out. Only a truly retarded person can't understand that. 🤙💜
So you think Bitcoin would be fine consuming less power than it does today?
I already commented your bs about hardforks elsewhere.
"In my experiments, I was able to create hundreds of thousands of fake channels against victim nodes (owned by me), with all kinds of adverse effects. In some cases, funds were clearly at risk of being stolen due to the victim node’s inability to respond to cheating attempts"
"The fact that this DoS vector went unnoticed since the beginning of the Lightning Network should make everyone a little scared. If a newcomer like me could discover this vulnerability in a couple months, there are probably many other vulnerabilities in the Lightning Network waiting to be found and exploited."
New LN bug just dropped. Not okay for Monero to hardfork, but ok when LN does it. Better go hardfork to keep your funds SAFU 😂
You have no idea, retard. Lightning networkS are just L2 plugins. Of course you can hard fork them. You can create your own flavor too. It's a tor on top of #Bitcoin
Hard forking L1 shows how centralized your shirtcoin is - kicking everyone who disagrees, out.
It's pointless to argue when you're clearly holding #Bitcoin alongside because deep down you know what an absolute digital scarcity is and that a temporary privacy is pointless.
#doublestandard
What if I don't like the changes of the next Lightning Network hardfork??? You gonna "kick me off the network"?
No, there is no contradiction, I can hold any variety of anything I find useful for different reasons. I don't have to go all into a single thing like a smooth brain ape like yourself.
If you don't like the changes on one LN flavor, you can switch to another, retard.
If you don't like the changes the monero elite decides for you, you're kicked out.
So you hold #Bitcoin and multiple random shirtcoins? Much clever 🤙💜
No, I like Bitcoin, it has it's strengths and weaknesses. I just don't like dishonest shills that get emotional about any criticism like Janet Yellen. They think Bitcoin can do everything with no trade offs which is ridiculous.
The dishonest shill is you, retard.
Perfect example. So mad 😂
Don't you dare use Bitcoin as p2p electronic cash! Continue hodling!
Because you know so much about me, retard.
It's pointless to argue when you're clearly holding #Bitcoin alongside because deep down you know what an absolute digital scarcity is and that a temporary privacy is pointless.
I like #Bitcoin, buy my shirtcoin - millions of shills already said that. You're not special at all.
No retard, I'm talking about using any #Bitcoin #LN wallet. To use Chivo, you need to be a citizen.
My biggest issue with monero, or any other 'private' shirtcoin for that matter is, that the gained privacy is just temporary.
They all write every single transaction on chain, forever.
If/when quantum computers become a thing, and #Bitcoin will move to a quantum resistant chain, monero (and the rest of private coins) will leave a ledger of ALL TRANSACTIONS for anyone to read. The shills know that, yet they never mention this because it doesn't pump their bags, quite the opposite.
why won't monero move to quantum resistant chain?
They will move it to a quantum resistant chain as well. But all the previous transactions will be waiting to anyone to read.
Good point, I hadn't thought of that possibility.
My biggest issue with lightning, is that it's privacy is inferior to monero for anyone that needs privacy right now, and any offchain benefits assume no one is saving that data right now to break in the future. Strictly worse right now, and possibly the same risks in the future.
Lol, are you going to explain how inferior privacy on LN vs that constantly hardforking shirtcoin is?
If I'll send you 100 #sats, what information will you be able to find on me? Be as specific as you can.
What does hardforking have to do with privacy? What a non sequitur lmao
This is a dumb argument. Just because I can't personally trace you means no one else can? Anyone you recieve from potentially can. Your friendly neighborhood fed and sleuth probably can.
And 99% of everyone else that uses Bitcoin/LN can be traced because it has no strong privacy by default AND is overwhelmingly used custodially.
Transactions on lightning channels no one can track. 🤙
Hardforking means, your shirtcoin is centrally planned.
Is that all you can do? Attack #Bitcoin with claims you just made up and say you're slow when asked for specific info?
Here's one for you: 99% of your brain is not working.
It's FOSS. Anyone can leave, join, or fork at any moment just like Bitcoin. People can sell or buy and no one can stop them. They're choosing it. It's a free market get over it.
I've said nothing but facts, and showed you a list where you can use Monero. I've yet to see even one place from you besides some podunk country's Mcdonalds. (I'll hop on the next flight there)
I doubt you actually use Bitcoin, you probably just hodl.
I'm really hodl, I only use it here in #nostr for #zap
But it makes sense for you to hodl #bitcoin and spend #monero for obvious reasons.
What obvious reasons though? Since the last bull run #Bitcoin and #Monero have perform about the same. #Ethereum and some other alts are still better performers than #BTC. I’m not saying this will still hold true for the next bull run but there are concrete data that can challenge the narrative that BTC will remain the best store of value moving forward. #XMR #ETH #Crypto
No retard, the shirtcoin isn't like #Bitcoin.
The elite decides the hardforks, the users have to adopt or leave. Bitcoin does softforks so the users can decide what to use. Massive difference.
https://btcmap.org/map - enjoy your podunk country, retard.
Solution: Sell your Monero when you don't like it, or fork when you don't like it.
Still no contentious Monero hardforks because users actually value protocol improvements. Bitcoin had the very turbulent blocksize wars and the half measure segwit so still wasn't saved from disagreements.
Meanwhile Bitcoin is still stuck with 2009 surveillance tech.
I can't sell the constantly hardforking shirtcoin that offers a temporary privacy because I don't own any.
You on other hand hold #Bitcoin because deep down you know it's the absolute digital scarcity. 🤙💜
When did I claim Bitcoin isn't absolutely scarce? You're fighting your own ghosts 👻🤛
So never never said that constantly hardforking shirtcoin is more scarce?
Think again, retard. 🤙💜
"Moving the goalposts aging, retard? Keep attacking #Bitcoin while you hold it."
Take your own advice
But no, I said right now it is scarcer, but I've never said Monero is "absolutely scarce" vs Bitcoin 😂
Show me
Yes, you said the constantly hardforking shirtcoin is more scarce than #Bitcoin - the absolute digital scarcity.
Start using your brain, retard.
It is right now and for the next two decades lmao. You can't do simple math? 18mil vs 19mil?
You're cute when you're mad 😊
Pretending not to understand what an absolute digital scarcity is, while holding #Bitcoin
Retard confirmed 🤙💜
Now you're going back to "absolute" scarcity, which is not what I said. I said Monero it more scarce RIGHT NOW and for the next two decades.
Yes or no? It's simple math.
How can something be more scarce than an absolute digital scarcity?
You are a dishonest cunt that wont answer the question. But I love you anyway
You are a dishonest cunt that wont answer the question - How can something be more scarce than an absolute digital scarcity?
I'll answer after you answer my first question
What is more scarce ~18mil or ~19mil?
You are a dishonest cunt that wont answer the question - How can something be more scarce than an absolute digital scarcity?
You're competing dirt and gold, retard. That's why I've asked the question.
That wasn't the question. Is 18 million scarcer than 19 million?
You won't answer because you would either have to admit I'm right, or look like a dumb dumb by saying it isnt scarcer😂
It cannot be scarcer than the absolute digital scarcity, retard.
If you believe in DIVISIBLE SCARCE NUMBERS IN DIGITAL WORLD, look into this shirtcoin, it's even 'scarcer'
Damn, 42-coin has us both beat 😵 How do I invest??? S C A R C E
Go all in, retard 🤙💜
This is why monero, nor any other shirtcoin will never be the next #Bitcoin. You can't have another absolute digital scarcity.
It doesn’t really matter when tax authorities are knocking on your door, does it?
If you're hiding your money on any blockchain, one day they might be knocking on yours.
nostr:note157xhuqdrz4lvdvpfup9tqn9rez8gt9j38eepe7ldkj93qhtrn90syuh9dv
Hardforking has to do with patching privacy leaks & mining algo issues.
Stop lying, or worse ignorant / arrogant.
Ok, sum up Monero privacy leaks. While doing that - throw a stone and where ever it lands is a Bitcoin privacy leak.
Mining algo issues have jack to do with privacy.
A toxic maxi calling others arrogant. Lmao. Lol even.
Okay so you're just ignorant/arrogant confirmed 👌
Want some more dodge with that dodge?
I didn't dodge anything, you took my words which I meant & changed their meaning to fit your narrative.
You were wrong that hardforks don't patch privacy leaks, & you were wrong to change my sentence on mining Algos & direct them only to privacy related issues.
You're kinda wrong on that too, but I don't have the NRG to educate you on something you should know yourself considering the bags you're holding.
Privacy doesn't have anything to do with hardforking in the sense that it isn't unique to hardforks. You can accidentally diminish it by hardforking bugs (Monero), or require patches for privacy but can't ever do it (Bitcoin)
We've been talking about privacy in this whole thread, so your mining algo comment is unrelated and seems forced.
Maybe I'm wrong about that. Show me if you want.
It's temporary even without QC.
Care to elaborate?
If you search: monero bug
You'll find that every so often they find a bug that can be exploited to unravel privacy which has persisted for however long to the date of patch.
Those are just the ways *we* know/found out about.
Wait till someone triggers an inflation bug or some other nefarious way of controlling other aspects of Monero, hashrate for ex.
this paradigm should at least be considered.
some bugs are features.
the Matrix bug which leaks metadata is one example.
Which bugs do you claim to be a feature?
you missed the implied sarcasm.
We really need a sarcasm font. Autists take everything literally, myself included
"If you searCh: mONErO BUg"
How out of date are those searches I wonder? And let me guess about any recent ones. It was an increase in probability. On only one layer of Monero's privacy. In a specific scenario.
How about this search:
https://bitcoincore.org/en/2018/09/20/notice/
Throws into question all the claims of transparent auditability like it's some impenetrable force field. Where all of bitcoins fate rested on one lone anon secretly divulging an inflation bug to devs who couldve also chosen to covertly exploit it. And you would be none the wiser until it was too late! There is no solution for an inflated exploit bug without hurting users who now hold "fake" Bitcoin they recieved for real products and services. And the shaken credability to Bitcoin would also be catastrophic.
Bitcoin relies on luck more than you or any maxi would like to admit.
Yet, you still hold #Bitcoin because deep down you know the bug would get discovered much faster than on the constantly hardforking shirtcoin, retard.
Discovering a bug is useless after it has been exploited, smoothy
Are you seriously this retarded?
Will the inflation bug be discovered sooner on #Bitcoin or the constantly hardforking shirtcoin or yours?
Be honest, retard.
You should be more gentle when dealing logically incompetent morons. 😂
Yes, sooner, but that wasn't my argument, stick to the topic.
What good is discovering a bug when there is now fake Bitcoin that was exchanged for real goods and services?
1) Rollback: You throw all those merchants/users under the bus who just gave away real products and services for free. Catastrophic for user confidence.
2) Keep the inflated Bitcoin: 21 milion Bitcoin is no longer a meme. Catastrophic for user confidence.
'What good is discovering a bug'?
Use your brain, retard.
Ok, you have now discovered a bug. Your choices or now either option 1 or 2 spelled out above. Which one "solves" the problem? 🤦♂️
Discovered bug and dealing with the issue straight away is better than NOT discovering the bug and using the blockchain.
But you still don't get it because you're retarded enough thinking any shirtcoin, using less coins is more scarce than #Bitcoin
Yes, but how did transparency save you from the exploited inflation bug after the fact? Answer: it didn't
Good job you stopped inflation now there are 27 million Bitcoin 👏👏👏
If you think Monero, but *especially* Bitcoin with it's "absolute scarcity* meme, wouldn't be forever tarnished and tank after that you are dreaming. Outcome is the same.
The bug will be discovered seconds after the fake coins are created. #Bitcoin will fork back to the 21M.
What's your issue, retard?
"The bug will be discovered seconds after the fake coins are created"
You are naive. Why would you think this lmao? You think there is an red alert exploit siren? 🚨🚨🚨 😂
This could easily go unnoticed for a long time just as the 2018 exploit bug discovered by that anon. An implementation flaw could be telling you there is X amount of coins when in reality there are more. You could have no clue
The implementation flaw where, retard? In my node? In the tens of thousands of #Bitcoin nodes globally? Are they all the same software/version?
How many extra bitcoins there were in 2018?
You do know code isn't perfect and has implementation flaws all the time right? Among all those different versions a large core of the code is the same...I was kidding calling you a smoothy earlier, but now I'm rethinking that 🤔
Never said the code is perfect. Having many different versions makes your bug scenario going undiscovered, next to impossible on #Bitcoin.
Something much more likely to happen on the constantly hardforking shirtcoin of yours, retard.
I'm not kidding when I call you a retard. I honestly mean it 🤙💜
You just made my point lmao
Juraj is great. But that article doesn't even come to your conclusion. Different use cases according to Juraj.
I liked his article because I think he managed to put passion aside, it was unbiased.
Good article but the privacy benefits of #Lightning are overstated. Here is a good article on the limitations of the LN to preserve users’ #privacy.
The conclusions are: « For the definitions for privacy used in this assessment, it’s possible to say that the Lighting Network is not very private as it is right now. Ultimately, the privacy you get from using the lighting network will depend on how you use it. »
#Monero doesn’t have bullet-proof privacy yet but it’s still much better than Lightning. I don’t think privacy was the original goal of lightning anyway. #Bitcoin
https://voltage.cloud/blog/lightning-network-faq/lightning-network-privacy-explainer/?amp
Just narratives.
If the text starts with having to explain what privacy is, it is why they need to create a narrative or excuse to try to invent that BTC has this mentioned privacy.
Holy shit this note still lives 🤣🤣
#monero is a shitcoin 💩