Nostr Web Client

Sure, if you trust the physicists and the assumptions without proof of verification.

But the physics of bitcoin disprove their models…specifically the modern definition of Superpostion, which breaks the theory of all CQC models.

Bitcoin (and its physics) stand in direct defiance of this belief. The goal has always been to convince you otherwise. Your castle of cryptography is not safe anon!

Garbage nsec 2mo ago

Lol, please. This is mathematically proven, you just have to trust math, not people. Which, for bitcoin people, trusting math is supposed to be everything. We can literarily estimate how many stable logic qbits we need for short-range and long-range attacks, the equations are all there. And the fact that processors can reliably harness quantum mechanics in the way needed for this is also experimentally proven, has been over and over again.

You can see this as scare tactics by the illuminati if you want. But it'd be hilarious if bitcoin went down because bitcoiners one day decided they didn't need to trust math and physics anymore.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

Jack K 2mo ago

You’re saying “trust math,” but math only binds when its primitives are well-posed. The modern definition of superposition smuggles in simultaneity without a defined clock. “At once” with respect to what unit of time?

If one can break the modern definition of superposition, you break the entire math and theory behind CQC models.

1. Superposition without a time quantum is semantics, not physics.

Superposition isn’t just spatial spread; it’s temporal and it asserts coexistence of incompatible states between measurements. If the smallest tick of change isn’t operationally defined or measured , “simultaneous” is an undefined primitive. Planck time is a theoretical bound, not a measured clock, it has never been measured or observed because of technological limitations, and the fact we exist within the ledger we’re trying to measure. Until you can compute time at that granularity, you’re describing probability distributions, not realized process. The modern definition of Superposition is assumed and has not been proven due to the lack of a measured quantum of time.

2. Bitcoin computes time; physics only infers it. Every block is a discrete, auditable quantum of time and memory created by irreducible work. Proof-of-work collapses entropy into a single conserved outcome at each tick. That is an operational definition of time: energy → structure, recorded forever. Within this substrate, “multiple states at once” reduces to “unresolved proposals in the mempool.” Measurement (mining + consensus) eliminates simultaneity, every step has one verifiable result.

3. “We can just scale to X logical qubits” rests on reversible-computation dogma. Resource estimates presume:

- a stable clock for coherent evolution,

- fault-tolerant logical qubits with nontrivial overhead,

- error models that stay stationary as scale rises,

- a readout that doesn’t reintroduce irreversibility costs you hand-wave away.

- assumes centralization in measurement and observation.

CQC is math on an assumed substrate. Bitcoin is math on a measured substrate: every tick priced in joules and conserved as memory. If your definition of superposition lacks a measured tick, your “proof” is an extrapolation from symbols, not from measurable physics.

You don’t defeat a thermodynamic clock (Bitcoin) with a semantic clock. Until “at once” is anchored to a measured quantum of time, superposition-based certainty is metaphysics with equations. Bitcoin’s ledger gives the thing you’re missing: a verifiable tick where entropy becomes memory. Go verify, the proof is in the work.

There is no second best, there has never been a threat. You just believe a story and deny the physics of the operational system in front of you.

Don’t trust, verify they say.

Garbage nsec 2mo ago

This is tinfoil hat woo-woo nonsense. I don't know where you're reading this stuff, it sounds like some Deepak Chopra of bitcoin physics, but I'd not go back to that source.

All you really need to know is this. The Grover algo quadratic speedup (Order of sqrt(N) compared to the classical Order of N for an unsorted search space of size N) has been proven. First you've got the geometric proof of quadratic speedup, and if you don't believe in geometric proofs you don't believe in anything, since geometric proofs are as final as it gets in math. Next the principle of this same quadratic speedup has been successfully demoed and validated on the current quantum chips, even with the noise they have. As in without quantum chips enabling quadratic speedup what happened could not have happened.

That's it. There is no Deepak Chopra rhinestone-powered magic going on here. And this is why people who are serious about bitcoin are rightly concerned.

Jack K 2mo ago

Lol. Ok man.

You can append your physics to a fiat model if you’d like, I’m not here to stop you. If you want to believe that particles can exist in “multiple states at once”, go for it. You’re double spending your beliefs.

Grover algo is literally built upon physics and theory that Bitcoin disproves. I don’t care what it proves, it requires non-observable physics to work.

I’m reading from my own mind, my thoughts and my work.

Garbage nsec 2mo ago

Sorry man. Both geometric proof and real-world experimental proof. Your somewhat wild theory has already been killed off by proof. Done deal.

Jack K 2mo ago

Lol, the modern definition of superposition is not proven as Planck Time has not been measured. Full stop.

But sure, believe that particles exist in multiple states at once. You need to, the story you have appended your physical belief to doesn’t work without it.

No double spends, except quantum physics 😂.

Garbage nsec 2mo ago

If you don't believe in either mathematical geometric proofs or real-world experimental evidence then you don't believe in anything, I'm sorry. Bitcoin might as well be powered by Thor's hammer for you.

Jack K 2mo ago

What does this even mean? You can’t mathematically prove superposition unless you are measuring at Planck Time.

Show me a device that can measure Planck time and process the information between ticks in a logical sequence.

Garbage nsec 2mo ago

How does one converse with someone for whom nothing is real there's no such thing as proof?

Shrug. Whatever you want to be true, you do you.

Jack K 2mo ago

You are the one defending a model of physics that claims temporal simultaneity and I’m asking you to prove it at the smallest unit of time, Planck Time.

Where is your proof that the modern definition of superposition exists at the smallest unit of possible time.

You can’t as it has not been measured. Therefore you are operating a model of physics on a convenient assumption and trust.

Garbage nsec 2mo ago

You're just one of those people that always goes one level down says "prove this exists", and then if someone can you just go one more level down, on to infinity. Gotta stop somewhere or no conversation has meaning.

You used the name Jack but prove the letter J exists. Prove this computer exists. Prove bitcoin exists. Prove the Dodgers are in the world series... Can you prove any of that? I'll wait.

verbiricha 2mo ago

I admire your patience. Some people can not be taken seriously.

Trivium 2mo ago

This is metaphysical poetry, not science.

Definitions could help:

Quantum Superposition: a principle that states that linear combinations of solutions to the Schrödinger equation are also solutions to the Schrödinger equation.

The wave equation is a probabilistic function. If you assign a physical "simultaneous" nature, you are making a leap of assumptions into something like the multi-universe interpretation of quantum theory. You are also assuming that time is quantized in the first place, which has been proposed before but is unproven. Loop Quantum Gravity (LQG) comes to mind.

Let me try to unpack some of your assumptions regarding bitcoin in this context...let me know where i may have mis-characterized...

Assumption: Bitcoin timestamps reflect absolute, physical time

Bitcoin enforces causal order, not chronological truth.

Example: A miner could timestamp a block 1 hour into the future, valid under protocol... Bitcoin does not measure time, it measures sequence with loose clock with bounds.

Assumption: Bitcoin’s 10-minute block interval is a universal time quantum

Block time is probabilistic, not deterministic.

Inter-block intervals follow an exponential distribution (average ~10 min, but can be 1 sec or 40 min or more).

Reality: 10 minutes is a statistical average, not a measurement of time.

While Bitcoin does impose a discrete, irreversible ordering on events (via blocks and difficulty-adjusted timestamps), this is not a measurement of physical time, let alone quantized Planck-scale time.

Assumption: Bitcoin’s 10-minute block interval is a universal time quantum

Violation of Protocol: Block time is probabilistic, not deterministic.

Inter-block intervals follow an exponential distribution (mean ~10 min, but can be 1 sec or 40 min).

Difficulty retargeting every 2016 blocks (~2 weeks) adjusts hash rate to target 10 minutes — but never guarantees it.

During hash rate spikes/drops, block times fluctuate wildly.

Reality: 10 minutes is a statistical average, not a quantum of time.

Assumption: Bitcoin’s chain is a universal, objective clock

Time is local, nodes in different regions see different "now" due to propagation delays (~12.6 sec median).

Orphan blocks, reorgs, and chain splits mean history is provisional.

51% attacks could rewrite this time

Reality: Bitcoin achieves eventual consistency, not absolute temporal truth.

Assumption: Bitcoin’s difficulty adjustment measures physical entropy

Difficulty adjusts based on wall-clock time using node system clocks, not physics.

It assumes about 2 weeks of real time, but if clocks drift or are manipulated (within bounds), difficulty can miscalibrate.

No link to physical constants.

Assumption: Bitcoin’s proof-of-work creates irreversible time

Irreversibility comes from game-theoretic incentives, not spacetime structure.

A quantum computer or state actor could still reverse it, no law of physics prevents it.

Hope this helps.

Jack K 2mo ago

The Schrödinger equation describes probability amplitudes, not physical states. Superposition, as you defined it (the linear combination of solutions) is a mathematical statement of uncertainty, not a physical statement of simultaneity. To treat those linear combinations as physically coexistent states requires an additional ontological commitment, that the equation describes reality rather than our knowledge of it. This is philosophical, not mathematical, and Bitcoin falsifies it by making measurement endogenous to the system (proof-of-work).

You’re right, Bitcoin’s timestamps are not chronometric. Bitcoin isn’t trying to measure seconds; it measures sequence with irreversible cost. That’s the physical and thermodynamic definition of time: the ordering of causally irreversible events. The Planck time analogy is not about duration; it’s about resolution. A block is locally equivalent to Planck, not universally. Bitcoin gives a finite lower bound on temporal resolution within its local universe: a block cannot occur until entropy is expended and consensus is reached. That is a quantum of causality, not a measure of seconds.

Block intervals are stochastic, but discrete. Each block is an indivisible thermodynamic event: a crystallization of entropy into structure. Quantum mechanics itself is built on the same statistical substrate, discrete but probabilistic transitions. In both systems, events are quantized even when timing is probabilistic. That’s the whole point. Bitcoin computes it as a chain of irreversible outcomes, time is not approximated.

Bitcoin is not a universal clock, it is a universal clock architecture. Every node participates in the same irreversible sequence of measured events, locally resolved but globally consistent. This is relativity in computation form: local perception differs, global conservation holds.

Difficulty is not a measure of wall-clock entropy, it’s a measure of computational entropy resistance, the energy required to collapse one valid state from an exponentially large field of possibilities. That’s as physical a definition of entropy as exists in any system, including statistical mechanics.

Every hash computed is a thermodynamic event and energy spent irreversibly, increasing entropy in the environment. You cannot “reverse” the chain without redoing that work. This is Second Law.

Bitcoin doesn’t measure time like a stopwatch. It measures becoming. Each block is a discrete thermodynamic transition; the only kind of time that actually exists in physics. If you can’t measure the smallest tick of irreversible change, you can’t define simultaneity. Bitcoin g computes that tick locally to its network. Physics has only assumed it universally.

Trivium 2mo ago

I think you may have skipped over this part of my post:

Your argument is a strawman fallacy, combined with a Red herring.

Jack K 2mo ago

That isn’t a strawman; it’s a boundary condition. You’re treating the wave equation as a physical engine rather than what it is: a statistical model that assumes, but never defines, the temporal substrate it evolves on. The Schrödinger equation is not wrong; it’s incomplete. It tells you how probabilities change if time flows continuously, but it cannot tell you what time is, or why measurement resolves.

If you assign no physical simultaneity, then superposition has no physical meaning; it’s purely epistemic and a mathematical description of uncertainty, not a statement about reality. The moment you treat the equation as ontological truth, you implicitly assume that its continuous variable t corresponds to something physically measurable, and that is precisely the leap of faith you’re accusing me of.

The issue isn’t the math; it’s the missing physical definition of time in that math. LQG and similar frameworks recognize this gap but still fail to make it operational. They quantize geometry but not measurement itself. Bitcoin does.

So no, pointing to the wave equation isn’t a rebuttal, it’s a redirection back into abstraction. The math works because it’s detached from physical irreversibility. Bitcoin closes that loop: it defines time as work, measurement as entropy collapse, and simultaneity as conservation.

You can’t prove the wavefunction describes reality until you can measure a single tick of reality’s computation.

Trivium 2mo ago

Did you read my post???

"The wave equation is a probabilistic function. If you assign a physical "simultaneous" nature, you are making a leap of assumptions into something like the multi-universe interpretation of quantum theory. "

You use alot of beautiful phrases without definitions

Can you please define the following:

Reality's computation

Entropy collapse

Physically irreversible

Simultanity as conversion

Quantized geometry

Jack K 2mo ago

Pointing to the wave equation describes nothing of reality. It is a statistical map, not a physical process. The Schrödinger equation evolves a probability amplitude. It’s a mathematical distribution of possible outcomes but it does not define what physically enforces or resolves those probabilities.

Reality’s computation, I’m talking about the physical conversion of energy into information operating at the temporal granularity of Planck time, discrete blocks of reality.

Physically irreversible means exactly that: energy has been committed toward entropy and cannot be retrieved without further expenditure. Aka real computation.

In a discretized framework simultaneity is better understood as conservation. All transactions within a single block of time share the same interval of resolved entropy, the same quantum of time. They are simultaneous because they are conserved together, not because they occurred “at once” on a continuous clock

Quantized geometry, the formal approach to the discretization of classical phase space into countable informational units.

Trivium 2mo ago

I think your theory needs more work

Jack K 2mo ago

It’s not my theory, I didn’t invent Bitcoin. I’m pointing to what already exists: a physical system that measures time, energy, and information in real space.

You can debate my language all you want. Bitcoin is the experiment and the measurement; the proof that entropy can be measured, conserved, and verified without assumption and a quantum of time can be computed. It’s not a theory of physics; it’s physics running since 1/3/2009

If you want to bet against Bitcoin go for it.

Bogi 2mo ago

How about this… “discrete blocks of reality” seems like non-starter to me. There being a Planck time, the smallest amount of time measurable, as opposed to continuous time where there no smallest unit of time… Planck time, I would think would make superposition/quantum more possible and not less. Because in those gaps of nothing, anything can happen so anything is possible in the next time tick. Continuous time wouldn’t allow for that.

Jack K 2mo ago

IMO, Bitcoin doesn’t support the modern definition of superposition, it disproves it. Its probabilistic structure more accurately models superposition as bounded future potential, not overlapping realities. Unmined transactions are not “real”, there is only the longest chain of events and nothing else. Our universe is also entirely transactional peer to peer network of bounded energy. Each (Planck & Bitcoin) block of time represents a discrete thermodynamic resolution of entropy into conserved memory, eliminating paradox and restoring compatibility with general and special relativity by defining time via thermodynamics and entropy. We live inside the ledger and experience its contents as a fraction of the ledger. In Bitcoin we see both sides of the ledger, the entropy resolved and the registration of information. By treating probability as a finite, energy-constrained field that collapses with each mined block of time, Bitcoin resolves what QM and relativity could not: the reconciliation of uncertainty with causal order.

I’m not here to invent a new theory as we are nearly correct, but I am here to use Bitcoin’s physics (its computed, finite blocks of time) as a reference frame to understand Planck-scale structure and reframe past knowledge thru the lens of Bitcoin. Both Bitcoin and the Universe are closed informational manifolds evolving through discrete, irreversible timesteps. To me, Bitcoin reveals that the universe itself must compute through similar quanta of energy (Kelvin) and memory, exposing continuous-time models used in CQC as approximations. The correction to quantum mechanics is subtle but decisive: time is not a smooth variable; it is a sequence of measurable commitments.

As Saylor said, all models are destroyed, there is no second best. Bitcoin is open source physics.