Nostr Web Client

I've been dealing with Bitcoin since pre-2013, and I've gotta say I've never seen it feel as powerful as it does on Nostr. The instant, effectively-free transactions that spring from having so many people on Lightning Addresses is like arriving on a different planet.

Most people's experience with Bitcoin payments -- if they even have it -- is a 30-60 minute wait for mining + two-plus block confirmations, and a fee that made it feel dumb to send less than $20. Most people don't want that. They don't need that. They will never care about that. Some do -- I did -- but it's a permanent minority. This is what makes lightning-fast settlements a big deal.

When normal people and businesses realize that global money transfers can be borderless, instant, free, and only take like two clicks, I think things are going to get very interesting. Still need to cover a lot of road on the privacy problem, but this already feels better than everything naked on-chain.

The hardest problem has always been making it easy for people who don't care about Bitcoin to accept Bitcoin (tender resistance) -- without requiring them to start caring about Bitcoin.

The way you do that is by making it "better than money." We're not there yet for everybody, but for the first time in many years, I caught a glimpse of how it might be possible.

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Discussion

MainStreetChungus 2y ago

I would repost this but everyone on nostr will do it because it is indeed that good. 🫡 nuff said. Thank you for your perspective ser.

Duchess 2y ago

It has been 7 months, so I’ll repost it for the #newbies that are #newtonostr 🏆

Melvin Carvalho 2y ago

When #nostr clients add "zaps" lightning will be like spendable karma

MRCX 2y ago

I think we're winning.

#[0]

StackSats ⚡️ 2y ago

daniele 2y ago

> I've never seen it feel as powerful as it does on Nostr.

Idem!

With the nice exception of stacker.news, another great bitcoin-divulgative project.

note10kvn7wxya44gvht8sejqux47x98dss5gw0mgz7n4zxj0yh4eqjastysew0

Jeff Booth 2y ago

Yes, early still but the velocity of what is going to happen with the network effect of lightning + and 2nd and 3rd layer scaling solutions + Nostr unlocks network effects that become impossible to stop because they bring so much value to users. Incredible times!

jo 🇺🇸 2y ago

POW is too slow

Wasted energy

Derek Ross 2y ago

Just because energy is used doesn't mean that it's wasted.

Glenn 2y ago

POW is what makes #bitcoin a commodity money whose ledger is constrained by nature.

Like physical gold is a commodity money with a ledger constrained by nature.

The base layer is not built for speed, it’s built to be very hard to fuck with.

L2+ brings speed and more efficient transactions, but without a hardened base layer, you have no real value.

RealJohnDoe 2y ago

EXACTLY!..👍 All these fools that think you can compromise the base layer for L2 and short term gains are idiots.

That's why #Satoshi designed the #consensus layer to rest in the hands of the #virtuous #fullnodes and #Bitcoin loyalist.

It's also why being able to run a full node must be accessible to almost anyone that wants to.

No blockchain bloat. Low #transaction #fees. Those elements are immutable for Bitcoin.

We are Bitcoin..🧡👑🗽

corndalorian 2y ago

💯

Derek Ross 2y ago

I've said over the past month that the "killer feature" of Nostr will be **Lightning**. The fact that Lightning is so tightly integrated on various aspects of clients and soon relays, it makes using Lightning so effortless and frictionless. Beyond that, people tip each other and post invoices and show that it's fun! I've had a couple dozen people DM me and tell me that they had never used Lightning before. Nostr changed all of that for them. They downloaded their first wallet. They setup their first Lightning node. They opened their first Lightning channels. Nostr will help fuel Lightning and Bitcoin's adoption.

galegoo⚡ 2y ago

Had used bitcoin before, but until nostr, I had never used lightning.

Fast forward a week and I'm setting up my own lightning and bitcoin nodes!

I hope what happened to me happens to everyone that experiences nostr.

Derek Ross 2y ago

Hell yeah! Love it! 🤙

StackSats ⚡️ 2y ago

That’s the way 🧡⚡️

Gerardo 2y ago

This I can concur with, it wasn’t til Nostr I actually saw lightning in use and wanted to contribute to both on chain and off chain networks 🫡

Steven 2y ago

My first Lightning transaction occurred only once I joined Damus.

Derek Ross 2y ago

That's fantastic :) I really do love to hear that.

zeph 2y ago

Yeah, and if there were polls here I bet we’d find a substantial percentage of us are in that boat.

BXL909 2y ago 💬 2

I'd like to list more lightning enabled projects in the 'bitcoin nostr' category at btcdir.org. Would really welcome any suggestions for anything I'm missing 🙏

Big Barry Bitcoin 2y ago 💬 1

To be clear, is nostr integrated with lightning, or is it just the clients?

Is there something in the protocol?

p2x 2y ago

And I must say it’s a nice feeling to get started on #LN and #bitcoin with the help and the energy of everyone here!

This will go far!

n 2y ago

🤙

tony 🤙🏼⚡️ 2y ago

how many more decades do you think it will be before this tender resistance is behind us?

ODELL 2y ago

100% agree but we need to make it easier to use lightning without custodians otherwise we are going to regret it in the future

DeleteMe❌ 2y ago

Celebration time again 😜 very true though! 👍 Run your own Node, folks!

ODELL 2y ago 💬 5

Running your own node is definitely a friction point but with lightning the bigger friction point seems to be liquidity management, particularly inbound liquidity.

Many of the people using ‘non custodial mobile wallets’ such as phoenix still have to trust the company that is running the node and providing them liquidity.

The concern I have is that we are onboarding a ton of people via custodial wallets and standardizing LNURL which has incentives pushing people toward custodial wallets.

Eventually these custodians will rug pull or shotgun kyc. It is difficult to reverse this course after the fact.

signal_and_rage 2y ago

does having multiple custodial wallets mitigate this risk?

Rijndael 2y ago

Then you have to manage different pools of liquidity. You shouldnt have to say “oh, let me get my other wallet” all the time

signal_and_rage 2y ago

If you have WoS and Muun, you pay from the one that hasn’t bent yet knee. When one goes down, you learn about how to open a channel real quickly.

Nyoro~n 2y ago

because it is lightning, its all hot wallet risk 😅

might i suggest doing some homework on Liquid? It offers a tradeoff to keep off-chain funds offline without an on-chain footprint, it could help you wrap your head around what federation risk is as people explore fedimint

signal_and_rage 2y ago

yes, and there’s that

Why do you think a custodial Lightning wallet is more popular than a Liquid wallet?

The Daniel 🖖 2y ago

I’ve never used Liquid or even seen it in action. Part of it could just be network effect and the proliferation and improving UX of Lightning wallets. What is Liquid currently used for that would make it appealing to new users?

Nyoro~n 2y ago

I use it to swap for outbound/inbound liquidity on my lightning node using things like CoinOS, SideSwap, and Peerswap (p2p) .

to be honest, it makes no economic sense to do it (which is why no one uses it) but after using lightning for a long time one tends to look for ways to mitigate hot wallet risk -- Liquid offers a solution to that

signal_and_rage 2y ago

I believe the use case is still confidential transactions for large transactions

The Daniel 🖖 2y ago

So…mainly for institutional use, whale traders, and exchanges?

signal_and_rage 2y ago

That was who they were trying to market to I believe so. There were some efforts made for everyday use, but it just didn’t catch on.

BTC Hodl 2y ago

What’s the best solution to manage liquidity? Any interesting projects to support there?

Ian "nostr.naut.social" D 2y ago

Most people just want low cost frictionless money, and if they are being onboarded by buying $30 of BTC experimental spending money with their Debit Card via the getalby top up, they really don't even have to care about deeper issues.

Don't make perfection be the enemy of the good enough.

Rijndael 2y ago

💯

LNURL pushes people towards hosted/custodial wallets. It’s better than the alternative. I just wish bolt12 was more widely adopted. I dont hold lnurl against anyone. Its a tool that exists today and works. But the reliance on a clearnet webserver comes with tradeoffs.

brian 2y ago

Leaving KYC issue aside, since *all* my coins are KYC 😉 , am I right in interpreting a hot custodial wallet greatest risk is simply losing the coins in it? So a balance risk management problem.

zeph 2y ago

it seems to me the major risk is that all your transactions are eventually linked to you pretty much publicly through chainalysis. This doesn’t leave aside KYC though, and since all your coins are KYC 😉 managing the data sharing and trusting custodians not to give away, sell or leak your data is the major issue for security in the future. Otherwise, yeah, losing your stack isn’t fun either.

691df800... 2y ago

If fees are zero and transactions are instant, what prevents users from jumping ship? Is it just a race at that point?

Harry 2y ago

Sadly I think that most people will use lightning integration on their already kyc payment app when it is integrated. Most people won't care until something bad happen

Bitcoin Mechanic 2y ago

CLBOSS fixes this.

ec91dd4b... 2y ago

Is there a way to like this tweet?

CitizenPleb 2y ago

Is there an easy way to get a LNURL without going through a KYC custodian?

Kolby 2y ago

You can set one up with your domain using BTCPayServer

CitizenPleb 2y ago

🙏

Colin G 2y ago

Also agree. For whatever reason is see a lot of people think non custodial bitcoin wallet is needed but custodial lightning wallet is fine. Not sure why that is the sentiment for many using lightning

Kolby 2y ago

Agreed. I’m not sure how we do so without people running their own nodes. Even then, channel management is not something most people will be willing to do and without proper channel management your ability to send and receive payments to your node is vastly diminished.

signal_and_rage 2y ago

Lightning will always require someone else’s infrastructure, unless your wiz of course

Bitcoin Mechanic 2y ago

False! Get an Embassy and connect real lightning wallets like Zeus or Spark.

This is easy and much cheaper than using custodial solutions.

signal_and_rage 2y ago

Do you run your own ISP? Do you connect to your own cell towers when you travel? Are you on your own power grid?

This is what the State will go after and regulate more.

Not very excited about the catch me if you can games that are coming, but here’s to freedom 🍻

Ross 2y ago

You are still bullish on the fediment aka Uncle Jim model though right? Realistically it will never be 1-to-1 with custody, having a heuristic for being adequately decentralized is difficult but necessary for us to answer “have we made it?”

ODELL 2y ago

yea I think fedimint is a solid tradeoff balance in the near term, better privacy and less trust then the custodial wallets that are popular today, still would like to see fully sovereign usage get easier

DETERMINISTIC OPTIMISM 🌞 2y ago

Cashu <=

ODELL 2y ago 💬 1

Cashu is a cool project but is not going with the federated model. You get improved privacy over a traditional lightning custodian such as Wallet of Satoshi but you have the same custodial risk.

With fedimint the custodial risk is minimized since it is a multi sig custodian.

signal_and_rage 2y ago

Wallets with multiple mints?

Rijndael 2y ago

Use my wallet < use my wallet and i cant see what you do < use my wallet and i cant see what you do and i have to collude rug you

DZC 2y ago

Bolt12 is a step in that direction.

Vishal 2y ago

What do you think about Phoenix Wallet’s solution?

Michael S Wildcard ✨ 😶‍🌫️🗽⚡ 11mo ago

Damn was just going to say that... Every non kyc lightning wallet is a pain in the ass, because all the good ones like Samurai and WoS have gone away. You gotta be techie to run the others.

Trey Walsh 2y ago

Hell yeah ⚡️

Gigi 2y ago

We're on our way to ubiquity.

dergigi.com/vew

vinney...axkl 3mo ago

i guess we didn't zap enough to keep him around?

0xtr 2y ago

Lightning is awesome and it fits really well into the nostr based stack!

johnny 2y ago

If you knew the number of people in developing countries who are using #Bitcoin to stabilize their personal economies, you would be surprised how they manage to use it through Lightning. #Nostr is definitely a way that we need to take as a society.

:P 2y ago

This is the tipping point for sure! Party on

HoloKat 2y ago

Making people use bitcoin without caring about it is slowly happening. Apps like fountain already let people people fund their custodial wallets with fiat and send sats to support podcast. This is only the beginning. Music and e-commerce will likely be impacted in a major way too. I could even see it take over the SaaS world with sats streaming per usage. No need for subscriptions anymore.

Jouze 2y ago

Fully agree!

Hunter ₿eaṩt 2y ago

#[2] is working very hard on addressing your last point with Strike!

cryptowolf 2y ago

#[0]

Gigi 2y ago 💬 1

Bitcoin. Better than money. (Thanks to #nostr.)

nostr:nevent1qqsgvw5gdwr53uc3mjvzm6608x3m7834v8m646u6k6e3hgffdduy9qqpzdmhxue69uhkummnw3ezucmjxqhxyctjqgsgfhhxuemwtwm8kjk5uppv7uxtmp5pz4wm2dv59lxx5pfnsk98ysqrqsqqqqqpf3m33z

Vika 2y ago

I am, however, concerned that lots of people use custodial wallets like Alby or so-called "Wallet of Satoshi". Call me a maximalist, but that kinda defeats the purpose of cryptocurrencies...

Zordon 1y ago

Don’t disagree but would argue the point of Lightning is that it’s ‘easy’. If you treat it like a checking account it facilitates the international settlement benefits Ed describes above. Never to hold anything on lightning that you couldn’t afford to loose…that’s what cold storage is for.

Gigi 11mo ago 💬 1

Not there yet for everybody, but soon.

Give us another 7 months.

nostr:note1scags6u8fre3rhyc9h457wdrhu0r2c0h4t4e4d4nrwsjj6mcg2qqc2k7am

ace 11mo ago

When we solve for transaction fees, the friction to adopt goes away. Effectively free, bid spread fee, something—but must be damn close to free before miners can focus on that problem in 2140

⚡️Rony₿oy⚡️49 11mo ago

How this post only 22 zaps??

Silence 11mo ago

💯

Just gonna drop a meme

nostr:note1lpcrk76f2gc8vyrqcgev2dexd2ts32vdt9helfn02gma2fyqs4zsw240c6

FEW_BTC 11mo ago

Thanks for the insights... that is an awesome take!

Zane 🐦 🧠 11mo ago 💬 1

Bru right there with you! I have bought all my drugs with bitcoin at a discount!

One day it will be the same with commodities, exp; your purchase at the supermarket will have cheaper options if you use bitcoin. Just imagine