Replying to Avatar Lyn Alden

The other day on Twitter/X, I paid out a 2,100,000 sat or $1,700 USD Lightning bounty.

Over the past couple years, I’ve offered an occasional challenge on Twitter/X.

When people tell me Lightning doesn’t work, I often ask them in random comments for their Lightning details so I can pay them in the next 5-10 minutes on the spot, permissionlessly, wherever they are, with this payment method that supposedly doesn’t work.

Every single time, they can’t do it. Because they haven’t even tried it. They’re just talking. I’ve done this a ton of times and nobody ever takes the sizable sat offerings.

In Dan Held’s anti-Nostr thread, Mark Jeffrey was critical of Lightning.

Unlike most who I offer the challenge to as 99% sure they won’t take it, I offered it to Mark despite knowing he had a much higher probability of accepting it, since he’s tech savvy and active in the broad crypto space. But in my view, if he accepts, then that’s also evidence on the spot that it works.

He declined my 21,000 sat offer and politely still talked anti-Lightning.

So, I said since I like him, I’d up it to 210,000 sats. He still declined and talked more anti-Lightning. He spoke about how he *wanted* it to work, but the problem just isn’t solved yet.

My inner Nostr Lyn couldn't help it, so I upped it to 2,100,000 sats, or $1,700+ USD, if he would just post a way to pay him on Lightning within the next ten minutes. Nobody had ever taken me up on my challenge, so I pressed to my highest offer ever just to see, out of sheer curiosity. He’s a multi-time published novelist, which with my recent fiction hobby, interests me. So, if there’s someone I want to claim the bounty, might as well be him.

And then you know what? He did. Of course he had a Lightning address.

He went from “want it to work but…” to digging through his past experiences and finding an old Lightning address, within a few minutes. The first person on Twitter/X to accept my challenge.

I paid him 2,100,000 sats on the spot, or $1700+ USD.

He provided a Stike address, so that’s a shout out to nostr:nprofile1qyxhwumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmvqywhwumn8ghj7mn0wd68yttsw43zuam9d3kx7unyv4ezumn9wsqzp382htsmu08k277ps40wqhnfm60st89h5pvjyutghq9cjasuh38q7t6dtc who made Lightning convenient enough for Mark, who doesn’t understand or particularly like Lightning, to finally call my challenge and make me have fun staying poor, lol. And it worked flawlessly despite being an above-average sized Lightning transaction.

I then asked Mark if he could identify the sending wallet, but he said he couldn’t. He asked about block explorers to identify the payment, and while I pointed him toward Mempool Space, I highlighted that Lightning tends to make sending privacy pretty good even though I didn’t maximize privacy on this one. I'm not deep into the weeds on privacy tech, so I'm always genuinely curious just to ask "hey, can you identify any privacy leaks here?"

I also asked him if he would have shared his bank details publicly like he shared his Lightning address. He said of course not.

So even if people say “But Lyn, Mark used a custodial wallet”, I’d say that this tech stack reduced his friction and boosted sender privacy.

I think there are still improvements to make of course, particularly Lightning combined with other scaling methods (ecash, Ark-style stuff, and so forth), but it’s a powerful glue that connects a lot of things together.

In addition, when it comes to payments and small amounts of working capital, there is an important “choose your own adventure” aspect. For small amounts, in safe jurisdictions, custodial Lightning is not that big of a deal, like keeping cash in your wallet that is prone to theft or loss. It maximizes UX.

But it’s important to keep pushing hard, keep developing, keep providing capital, to make as many tools as possible available for people that need to maximize privacy and/or self-custody. Not everyone needs or wants those capabilities for every single payment, but they do need the *option* to turn to them when it’s important.

Mark Jeffrey then reached out to chat about fiction. Last year he asked me to go on his podcast to talk about Broken Money, but I fell behind on Twitter/X DMs due to bandwidth constraints and didn’t get back to him. So, after this I got back to him and said I’d be happy to talk about fiction with him to pick his brain, and talk Broken Money on his podcast, and we got one scheduled. 🤝

a rando on the internet not being to identify the source of a payment says very little about the privacy of a network.

I can do the same thing with a credit card.

that doesn't make it private.

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Discussion

-Would you give your credit card details in a public thread?

-A lot of the time, the privacy that people want is from randos. If it's way harder for randos to identify payments, that's a big privacy boost.

ok then

better than a credit card.

but I assume you know that isn't the point.

people have real privacy needs and that still falls into the category of "cute"

I'm not saying good privacy on LN isn't possible

but that doesn't demonstrate it.

in fact it encourages a misunderstanding of what privacy is.

lol go touch some grass mate

uninspired replyguy reply is uninspired 👋

trying to win an argument at all costs can make you look stupid

fortunately you dont need to try and it comes naturally

Lol, credit cards and the banking system are abstractions and like most abstractions, eg Cashu, are more private than Bitcoin...

Privacy and Bitcoin shouldn't be in the same sentence, unless one is willing to go through an intermediatary like Strike or Cashu...

And sorry, but that's a non starter...

The problem is that LN creates problems rather than solving them.

Someone using Zeus embedded node should open a channel with 100k-1mil sats...

Or God forbid, they need hardware to run their own node and keep it online.

Then manage liquidity...

Anyway my point is that you end up pushing people to custodial solutions the more you push these layers with massive UX issues on people.

And that's fucked...

We have convinced people that they're bitcoiners when they're effectively reverting to the fiat system of IOUs...

Ffs

KYC or Custodial solutions... It's all bullshit... Damn it people!!! There are other solutions...

Sure, why not?

Card Number: 4318-2461-9091-4000

CVV: 359

Pin: 8896

Expiration Date: 2/28

zip plz

Sure: 20001

And if you need, Mothers Maiden Name: Smith

🤪

not the best example perhaps

but the point stands

we pay counterparties with CC all the time

and it is "private"

if being able to publicly post an invoice is the big advantage,

maybe we need to rethink this.