Gah! No. Please god no. Do not ever make a sender pick between different receive modes as if they have any idea what “lightning” or “cashu” are. They do not, they want to pay in Bitcoin, let them. (BIP (3)21 lets you embed many payment instructions!)
The amazingly talented nostr:nprofile1qqsdmcml9nhl7q59zxm0t4xjx9zsryp3kxkqn7dvkazlszqg9psd5xgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgqgkwaehxw309ahx7um5wgkkgetk9eaxyepwvansetzh74 , with support from the equally amazing nostr:nprofile1qqs22d4tralncqfnh2kmmarjkxk8449hwnk5xtqe3y5yry6hy7ytegqpzamhxue69uhkummnw3ezuun9d3shjetj9eek2tcprpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuendwsh8w6t69e3xj7304g3lha team, have made BTCNutServer (Cashu eCash payments plugin) a reality!
It’s still in pre-release testing, so we have it running on a couple of different live btcpayserver instances.
If you would like to help testing, or just try it out, please head to one (or both) of our test installations:
Custodial LN node:
https://nuts.kukks.org/apps/4Q6f4KQ8AykixcCGGdqvyRgkBL2v/pos
Full LN node:
Both stores have “custom amount” options so you can test with amounts as small as 1 cent if you wish.
PS: Don’t forget, these are live instances, so real sats will be spent!
Discussion
In BTCPayServer merchant can choose which "payment method" he wants to be displayed, and of course he can add multiple of them. This is just plugin for this server adding Cashu as one of them.
Yes and then it’s a bug in BTCPayServer. That looks like the payer screen, and that is a horrendous user experience :).
There is a BTCPayServer setting that allows BIP21 unified payment request.
Lots of stores seem to leave it off, maybe wallet support was spotty or something.
Arguably, anyone using Cashu will know they are going to go to their Cashu wallet to pay.
Agree it’s desirable for lightning/chain though
> Lots of stores seem to leave it off, maybe wallet support was spotty or something.
Sounds like really bad defaults that need updating!
> Arguably, anyone using Cashu will know they are going to go to their Cashu wallet to pay.
So you’re saying no normies will ever use Cashu? Boy why are we bothering with it then.
The sarcasm’s adorable, Matt, but off-base. Normies already have a frame of reference for “cash” vs other payment methods in the same currency.
The current BTCPay default also mirrors many fiat checkouts (card vs Paypal/Klarna etc for example).
I accept your broader point, but until BIP21 "just works" consistently and universally in wallets, that's a bigger barrier to normie adoption than checkout options IMO. So I can live with the default.
What wallets are left that don’t parse BIP 21?! It’s more than a decade old! We don’t have to settle for shitty UX just because one or two wallets aren’t aware of decade-old standards lol. We can get them to fix it.
Also I’m pretty skeptical it’s a real problem, Cash App *only* shows a BIP 21 QR code and hides the raw addresses behind a (i) button. Those who have shitty wallets can tap into it and find it, but those who don’t get a nice clean UX.
This isn’t ethereum, let’s not pretend everyone knows how to bridge.
And it’s not sarcasm, it’s dead serious. You know what lightning, but the vast majority of folks with Bitcoin do not. Just like ethereum people think that making users constantly bridge between rollups is fine, meanwhile nearly no Bitcoiners even know what bridging is (as a point of comparison for you to a more foreign “crypto” concept).
You miss the point. The real question is "which wallets are left that don't handle Cashu payment requests?"
The answer is "most of them".
If I want to pay using private Cashu ecash, and I'm taken to my default Bitcoin/lightning wallet and it doesn't support Cashu, or I've got to cliek around to find the correct payment request, then that's a really shitty UX. Worse than offering it as a payment option in-store IMO.
One day that may be different, but that day is not today. BIP(3)21 makes for great UX, and I salute you for writing it, but only when wallet support for the underlying payment option(s) are ubiquitous.
Store checkout options will therefore (rightly) lag behind wallet adoption.
There's also a reasonable argument to be made that Cashu payments should always be a separate option. Like cash, it's a bearer asset... no "wallet" required. Clicking a BIP21 link potentially doxes the user's intentions to the wallet.
> So you’re saying no normies will ever use Cashu? Boy why are we bothering with it then.
That line was not sarcastic? OK chief 🫡
You know you can have a single BIP (3)21 that supports receiving over lightning, Cashu, *and* on-chain, right? And that’s the sender wouldn’t have to know anything about the features their wallet supports or technical details of Bitcoin protocols?
Yes, and it’s great. It hides the complexity in the same way that people don’t need to care if their card payment is “credit or debit”.
Cashu offers a different use case. It is the answer to the fiat question “cash or card”.
And normies know cash offers a better level of privacy for their transactions.
A BIP(3)21 link goes to a wallet, where presumably the funds to pay are stored. Like a fiat bank account.
With Cashu, a user holds a bearer token, like a fiat bank note. No “account”.
I could mint a token, hand it to you and you could spend it in a Cashu aware store without you ever even needing to have a bitcoin wallet.
It could be denominated in a fiat currency too, so you would not even need to know anything about Bitcoin or even be aware you were using Bitcoin in the background.
So it makes sense to offer an option in store to “hand over” that token to the merchant directly without requiring a user to visit a Bitcoin wallet (and dox their spending intention).
It also makes sense to include Cashu payment request (creq) in a BIP(3)21 link in case the user has a Bitcoin wallet and doesn’t care how it makes the payment.
Both are valid. Both enhance UX. Neither is shitty.
Just because you can draw an analogy to something physical doesn’t mean that people are going to learn the weird bitcoin-specific jargon and technologies. I’m sorry but you really need to spend more time talking to normies and newcoiners.
And, to be clear, just because the tech happens to be a bit different doesn’t mean it can’t be used in a BIP (3)21. Even the thing demod here ends up in a QR code to provide a channel to send the token to.
Yo, I feel you on that! 🤔 But how do we bridge the gap for the normies? Like, what’s the best way to break down the tech without drowning 'em in jargon? #CryptoForAll #NewCoiners
Please actually read my reply Matt. I didn’t say it could not be used in BIP(3)21. I highlighted some of the privacy and bitcoin simplifying abstractions that would be lost if BIP(3)21 was the only way.
You seem to be very single minded. Your way is right, everyone not exclusively using your BIP(3)21 protocol is wrong. Shitty even.
You also say people can’t draw the analogy to cash. Meanwhile in Cuba:
good luck explaining that to someone who is just getting into bitcoin and started using lightning wallets
This makes absolute sense, just dropping in to say that.