indeed. what bothers me is when working class heroes are fired for saying a âwrongâ pronoun and stuff like that. itâs not what judith butler has taught, itâs precisely the opposite. itâs persecution, itâs revenge, itâs inverse violence against those the left âswornâ to protect in the first place. in the end, itâs all distraction sponsored by soros to implode everything we have built over the past centuries. as musk said, and here I must agree with him, soros is a magneto type who hates humanity and wants to destroy the very fabric of civilization, obsessed with the idea of superiority of mutants over people. the war was won on 90âs. they had to do something about it. they made up woke movement outta their arses and itâs indeed destroying all the historical principles the left used to follow for millenniums. you can call me âpiece/of/shitâ tho, no problem, lol
Discussion
If you could provide me any example of anyone getting fired for accidentally calling someone by the wrong pronouns I would be very surprised. There is a difference between deliberately going out of you way to misgender someone many times (which a small minority of assholes will do) versus just struggling to learn someoneâs pronouns or the concept in general (which I empathize with, I really do). I would never get upset with a random person being confused. I AM much more upset when my very own parents wonât even take the time to learn or understand.
I get that a small part of the queer community will weaponize identity politics and overly-gentle language to silence people. I would call such behavior out. But that has more to do with tone policing and political correctness then pronouns.
It is fine to be critical with many parts of the queer community who were influenced by Judith butler but in a political sense, we all need to be united in the face of reactionary legislation. I am speaking as someone in the United States who is seeing waves of hysteria around queer people generally.
Queer people are not the reason why there are no he/she/it and gender-specific words in Turkish.
I'm sure of that :))
I guess this is because women were seen as a little more human in ancient Turks.
makes total sense đ€
this one is a classic example here in brazil, a nurse: https://twitter.com/rcruz80/status/1526904841909547013?s=46&t=9UybzH3ofqM2Stcuk28J-g
the hysteria is the same here. donât get me wrong, my sister is queer, sheâs married to a trans man, Iâm butlerist myself. but as Iâm seeing it, the reactionary part of the story is more and more on this side of the fence. weâre the ones asking for a new morality, a new dogma. weâre the ones asking for control and punitivism. weâre the ones forcing people to get vaxxed with an experiment. weâre the ones on big pharma/soros side. it seems like Iâm living in a parallel universe. everything Iâve fought against my whole life is becoming âmeâ. there are religious people who will never accept some things, and this will never change. and we canât complain about it anymore cuz well⊠here we are with our own particular dogmas and believes. âtrust the scienceâ. no, question the science. âregulate internetâ. no, dude, internet was made to be free. we, the left, have become a bunch of âcaga-regrasâ. and more and more, Iâm certain that the main problem here is the metropolis model. as Iâve said many times here before, we need urban exodus urgently. we need to go back to small communities. weâre tribalists. there will always be this shit, ones against others and metropolis just makes it worse. you canât change human nature, but you sure can change the environment. and then, finally, thereâs soros. Iâm writing an article about it, so I wonât extend it here, but the battle of seattle was the last great attempt to destroy the system. we ARE the system nowadays. cuz soros put billions and billions on our pockets to make it happen. I canât be anything but against it all. in the name of our historical principles. which, btw, right is co-opting more and more.
I really want to cut through the noise of this discourse and get at something you said, which I found really interesting. Mainly the idea of gender theory as envisioned by Judith Butler and others, becoming integrated into this emerging new capitalist order. It is perfectly true, in my estimation, that queer theory has no revolutionary impetus for addressing or challenging the system. I'm not discussing about the traditionalist system or the fascist system (which it definitely can subvert), but the essence of capital unleashed in the late 20th century. Queer theory and queerness has been absorbed by the system as has many other alternative lifestyles and counter-cultural movements throughout the 60s and 70s. With that being the case, we cannot dismiss the entire subject, but perhaps address the ways in which capital tries to subvert certain elements of queer theory that unleash new desires that can be exploited by capitalism. I'm sure it is very hard to see something that you truly believe has revolutionary potential go this path, but you must never forget that the arms and tentacles of capital stretch deeply into so many facets of society, and that mounting an obstacle towards it is so hard on so many levels these days. From my perspective, the best we can do now is to work towards capital's alignment with these beliefs to create civil liberties through bourgeois democracy. This will not be sufficient in creating large social change, but at the very least it will help to alleviate some of the repression faced by some people in certain contexts. I understand where youâre coming from, I really do. I had to come to terms with this fact last year as well. đ€
I will have to translate your tweet but ofcourse, if anyone actually got fired from their job for mistaking someoneâs pronouns I would be opposed vehemently. I just was familiar with the panic in Canada around C-16 that to my knowledge has never actually happened. We should oppose all forms of inhumane rules and regulations that donât take nuance into account.
not only get fired, you know. being canceled is totally against what we used to preach as well, butler was completely against cancel culture, she abhorred it. cuz itâs the typical thing that oppressors do. I donât wanna be an oppressor. đ„Ž
Wasnât butler all about discourse? That undermines that entirely. I think that in cancel culture in the form of mass reporting and outrage comes from a form of slave morality that we should be quick to call out.
look for her "Excitable Speech", itâs all there. totally against it. an excerpt poorly translated: "Stating that certain utterances are always offensive, regardless of context, that carry their contexts with them in ways that are difficult to describe, yet it is not understanding how context is invoked at the moment of utterance". there are more incisive parts Iâm not finding rn. but while I agree with you I really donât see it being called out, not until itâs too late and weâre totally enslaved. thatâs the plan. as Iâve written during the pandemic: who is going to fight against control (of the state, of power etc.) if those who used to fight it now are the ones who demand it?
try to translate this article by a friend of mine, lygia maria, we used to protest together when we were kids, now sheâs considered an alt-right by brazilian left and most of our friends quit talking to her, sheâs columnist of folha de sp (which would make ME stop talking to her, lol) and hated by both sides: https://www.facebook.com/100006566658355/posts/pfbid0arYTpazSwzzXFM2hRUFphG2rEoapq6hb7M2LbzjtxLqsE3JsCXFAaWu2TbYuVXewl/?mibextid=Nif5oz
brazilian left had the audacity to cancel MBEMBE, I mean⊠wtf is wrong with these people?
"if anyone actually got fired from their job for mistaking someoneâs pronouns I would be opposed vehemently ... that to my knowledge has never actually happened"
You didn't look far.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/peter-vlaming-transgender-student-lawsuit_n_5d9600bce4b02911e116d773
https://nypost.com/2022/10/28/coach-travis-allen-suspended-for-misgendering-trans-student/
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/may/19/indiana-counselor-sues-after-being-fired-over-crit/
Thatâs not accidentally misgendering thatâs just refusing to gender correctly. For decades it was an insult to call a cis-man a âwomen, girl, sissy, etc.â Thatâs because itâs straight up disrespectful. And to do that to your students? God no.
Nope. It is refusing to gender INcorrectly.
You know what is disrespectful? Pretending to be something you're not, and then getting people who are actually the thing you're pretending to be fired from their jobs, censored and cancelled for calling you out on your lie.
Besides, calling a man a girl is disrespectful not because he's not a girl. It's disrespectful TO WOMEN because you are implying that women are weak and useless. Your new variety of far-left sexism is just as bad as it ever was when we were told to stay in the kitchen - arguably even worse, because now you're locking us up in there with entitled autogynephiles and pedophiles.
I see this isnât going anywhere and have a good day. It must be fun holding such strong beliefs about people that donât actually impact your life in any way.
aw, I see it as highly revolutionary, actually. butler is disciple of foucault, so both were totally against society of control. the revolution was in freeing the body of oppression, to begin with. and then⊠what do they do? ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
they do precisely what butler warned about: the oppressed became the oppressor. and yeah, youâre right, they did the same in 60/70âs. but then: punk arose. and pre-queer along with it. velvet underground, ny dolls, stooges, all the glitter rock. it was all about freedom and fuck society of control. punk then became grunge, riot grrrrls, an organized movement. globalism (which encapsulates the worse of capitalism and the worse of socialism) will always try to survive and co-opt all our efforts. so shame on us who spread our legs for it. and I canât see what you wrote anymore, wait haha
Muito interessante toda essa questĂŁo ideolĂłgica e filosĂłfica.
Tive algum acesso a umas informaçÔes hoje sobre os globalistas estarem disseminando doenças e contaminação na comida e ĂĄgua, alĂ©m de vacinas, pelo mundo, para reduzir a população e matar o maior nĂșmero de pessoas possĂveis.
E no emaranhado dos esquemas estĂŁo o surgimento e estĂmulo aos anticoncepcionais, a disseminação LGBT e outros meios de destruir paulatinamente os nĂșcleos familiares para reduzir as taxas de natalidade e, consequentemente, a população.
pois Ă©, Ă© complicado isso. tĂŽ achando bem produtivas as conversas que venho tendo com a direita nos Ășltimos dois anos. nĂŁo que antes nĂŁo existisse, pelo contrĂĄrio. eu venho de uma famĂlia ultra catĂłlica, conservadora ao extremo, agro-capitalista de goiĂĄs (daĂ tu tira). e sempre tentei conversar com eles, sem ĂȘxito. daĂ meu espĂrito livre desde bem pequeno mesmo, me descobri um libertĂĄrio aos 11. e sempre foi esse dilema na famĂlia (sĂł de primos, sĂŁo trinta), nos natais a gente atĂ© criou a brincadeira dos opressores e oprimidos, eu sempre do lado dos oprimidos. aĂ, de repente, de dois anos pra cĂĄ, eu comecei a concordar com meu primo que era o mais antagonista de todos. e a gente chegou Ă conclusĂŁo de que nĂŁo tinha sido eu quem tinha mudado, mas ele e a direita, assim como a esquerda tinha mudado tambĂ©m, uns cooptando os princĂpios dos outros. palavras de ordem como âmeu corpo, minhas regrasâ de repente foram abandonadas pela esquerda e adotadas pela direita, mas a certa altura destrocavam de novo dependendo da conveniĂȘncia, de cada situação. eu acho, como escrevi dia desses aqui, que essa
divisĂŁo entre esquerda e direita tĂĄ chegando ao fim. antes da revolução francesa, Ă©ramos todos contra o absolutismo centralizado e totalitĂĄrio do monarca. acho que a gente tĂĄ bem perto disso voltar a ser realidade de novo. independente disso, acho muito produtivo esse intercĂąmbio que rolou durante a pandemia, essa inversĂŁo de valores, pra que ambos os lados aprendam vĂĄrias e vĂĄrias liçÔes. que os oprimidos de hoje (nas filas da vacina, por exemplo) nĂŁo se tornem os opressores das festas de natal de ontem. a gente precisa acabar com isso. a gente precisa aceitar que nem todo mundo acredita no que a gente acredita e tĂĄ tudo bem porque, no fim, a gente vai morrer sozinho mesmo e, se for o caso, se salvar sozinho tambĂ©m. e Ășnico caminho pra essa salvação, seja o paraĂso ou a entropia quĂąntica, Ă© o respeito, o amor, a aceitação do outro. a gente tĂĄ lutando por liberdade aqui. liberdade, igualdade, respeito. ou a gente para de brigar entre si ou eles vĂŁo passar com um trator por cima da gente. nĂŁo tem outra opção. que seja o respeito, a uniĂŁo đ€
Excelente. Minha Ășnica observação Ă© a palavra igualdade. Igualdade Ă© um perigo e tem sido usada (a palavra), para a promoção de absurdos mil.
Eu entendi o seu ponto perfeitamente. Adiciono este âalertaâ porque se tem uma coisa que a revolução francesa deixou bem claro Ă© que a âluta pela igualdadeâ Ă© desculpa para atrocidades.
Orwell coloca muito bem no âuns sĂŁo mais iguais que outros.â o perigo do conceito.
EntĂŁo, apenas para pensarmos e termos cuidado ao falarmos em igualdade.
perfeito, ninguĂ©m Ă© igual mesmo. que sejam respeitadas as desigualdades entĂŁo, rui barbosa faz dobradinha com o orwell hahaha ĂȘxodo urbano, esse Ă© o papo. acho que o russell brand tem essa mesma visĂŁo tambĂ©m, vou confirmar. mas justo por conta dessas desigualdades que o caminho sĂŁo as tribos. nĂŁo existe superpopulação, o que existe Ă© mĂĄ distribuição de gente. se realocar todo mundo em comunidades menores e afins, acabam-se os problemas (esses), que venham problemas novos đ«Ą
Boa! Vale notar que os eugenistas sabem muito bem quem eles querem eliminar.
Qualquer um que pesquise sobre o que defendiam abertamente hå poucas décadas, percebe que continuam fazendo exatamente o que queriam, só que não alardeiam mais.
Os âindesejĂĄveisâ de ontem estĂŁo tendo seus genes marcados hoje, para extermĂnio amanhĂŁ.
total, nĂŁo Ă toa os biolabs em territĂłrio nazista na ucrĂąnia, de onde possivelmente saiu esse vĂrus. enquanto isso, cancelam o monark por falar merda ao tempo em que batem palmas pra azov. tĂĄ tudo virado de ponta-cabeça.
disclaimer: monark, te amo, nĂŁo deixa de me ler, tu sabe que falou merda e eu jĂĄ te disse isso, ĂĄguas passadas, quem nunca, sigamos haha
Ă o respeito e convivĂȘncia com os diferentes Ă© a base. Na verdade me considero cristĂŁo. Minha famĂlia Ă© de origem afro e portuguesa ao que parece.
Mas não me identifico muito nem de um lado nem do outro em relação a direita e esquerda.
O que me identifica mais é a questão de ser contra a injustiça e opressão. A favor da liberdade. Dos direitos iguais. Do respeito.
Como minha visĂŁo de mundo estĂĄ muito arraigada ao meu conhecimento de BĂblia, pra mim o problema principal Ă© o homem em si.
A jornalista ClĂĄudia que descobri esses dias e que Ă© quem me trouxe aqui na verdade me levou a um doutor que publicou aĂ uma reflexĂŁo bem pertinente a esse respeito.
Ele diz que a nossa injustiça reside no fato de que a depender do nĂvel de burrice a pessoa vai apresentar soluçÔes melhores ou piores. E isso tem a ver com o lado negro dentro de nĂłs.
Na minha visĂŁo o pecado Ă© essa coisa odiosa que existe no homem e tende ao caos. Isso Ă© a ideia da BĂblia. Vejo um paralelo com essa ideia do doutor onde as pessoas estabelecem algum tipo de padrĂŁo que determina o que Ă© bom ou mal ou belo.
Sobre essa base se fazem julgamentos. Pra mim o padrĂŁo Ă© uma pessoa: Cristo. E a medida que alguĂ©m estĂĄ mais distante desse padrĂŁo se torna mais opressora e egocĂȘntrica.
Agora em termos gerais a humanidade tem uma noção do que Ă© justo e correto. Isso tem a ver com o respeito que vocĂȘ fala.
E essa questĂŁo do conhecimento tambĂ©m entra no mĂ©rito de quanto mais vocĂȘ conhece ou desenvolve inteligĂȘncia vai ter maior compreensĂŁo e daĂ mais capacidade de propor soluçÔes melhores.
No quesito da inteligĂȘncia porĂ©m entra o carĂĄter. Onde uma pessoa pode ser muito inteligente e ao mesmo tempo um tirano egoĂsta e opressor. E aqui voltamos ao padrĂŁo moral (Ă©tica, respeito, compaixĂŁo, humildade, solidariedade e etc.) estabelecido por Cristo.
O conhecimento proporciona poder, inteligĂȘncia tambĂ©m. Mas tudo isso Ă© nada sem amor, parafraseando o apĂłstolo Paulo.
nah, certeza. eu resumiria com:
inteligĂȘncia <<<<< (1kx) carĂĄter đ€
Sorry for the late response as real life summoned me temporarily. But I would have to agree with you. Global capitalism is so good at commodifying and commercializing itâs own opposition. Thereâs a built in mechanism of transgression within capitalism (as zizek points out) that allows for people to performatively âresistâ the global totality while actually operating well inside its boundaries.
thatâs it. and itâs hard, so hard to break through those boundaries⊠the more privileges, the harder. while, in getting it, the more privileges it used to be, the freer. and even in a more sincere way. the secret is to break through and never look back, I guess. one can only resist him/herself.
My struggle right is knowing how one can even go about breaking through. I donât see many paths forward so I am quite cynical about it at the moment. Radical shifts in consciousness are not what the masses will ever desire. They desire what capital channels back at them in the form of advertising and the like. They desire convenience and enjoyment.
and thatâs why we must abolish masses. I was just watching last russell brand video, after months without watching it and it was precisely about population crisis, how we are decreasing in number. thatâs not what I mean, but itâs directly correlated. just what I was saying the other day: we need to populate countryside, exit big cities and grow communities that share the same values. metropolis is death, man. and while we stay here (there, tho not everywhere), weâll never get to break through indeed. system wants us piled up on each other and warring.
But also consider that class antagonisms (and I would say we are still in the class antagonism partially) can be effectively mobilized in cities in ways that the countryside is unable to mount. I think we must consider this parallel between urban and rural areas and create exchanges of individuals from community groups to experience other ways of living and report back. This urban/rural dialogue could be incredibly beneficial because I feel like this divide can particularly be felt in the modern era. We need an effective way of communicating between groups instead of narratives being formed about them.
I leave you with this idea: where there is a greater accumulation of class antagonisms the greater the disparity. From this: the greater the potential front of resistance we can mount. Just an idea tho.
just seen this (following the contend with the radfem, lol). I got your point, and if thereâs no other way rather than being condemned to live in a smart city, then yeah. tho I honestly think itâd be helpless like itâs been since ever and the greater the resistance, the greater would be the control/oppression. I still bet on urban exodus, tho I know itâs way too utopian in a certain sense. perhaps doom is indeed the only future possible.
If thereâs an urban exodus I honestly think it could be for the best. Donât get me wrong. I grew up in a rural area my entire life and even hearing the noise pollution from cars is becoming a drain on my soul. I think cities are life sucking machines.