Replying to Avatar Derek Ross

Are Paid Relays a Shitcoin?

Last night on Nostr Spaces, we discussed potential implications of paid relays. I believe we Nostriches all understand that paid relays are needed for 1) to pay for the service that we're using as nothing should be free 2) relay operators need funds to pay for relay hardware infrastructure and 3) to thwart spammers.

#[0] said that he thought that paid relays were Shitcoins. What did he mean?

With a Shitcoin, anyone can create one. There is no Proof-of-Work in this process. The creator makes promises about their current offerings or future offerings. And lastly, they want payment and take user's money.

#[1] mentioned that he believed paid relays should operator on a Web-of-Trust model. What does this mean?

Do you know the relay operator? Do they have an older or well known Nostr public key? Did they previously run a free relay? Do reputable people use and recommend this relay? It's fairly easy now to form a Web-of-Trust with well known actors in this space and community.

As we move forward, we do need to watch for scams. A relay and operator could appear out of nowhere. A relay could promise the moon on speed and resources. That relay and relay operator could also disappear in a day or a week or a month, after they've reached their fund raising goal.

Right now, using Nostream to operate a paid relay at least requires a ZBD developer account. This is right now behind a gatekeeper. #[2] needs to approve relay API access. This will get easier in the future. In the future, Nostream will work with other providers and I would assume even end up working with your own node. In the future, we'll need to be more diligent when choosing paid relays.

Start building your Web-of-Trust now.

You're picking up on an element I think many haven't quite grasped. Nostr is using cryptographic key pairs for identity creation & management.

It's completely permissionless but it comes with zero cost to the key creator. In order to be heard amongst the noise that comes with zero cost communication, you need to demonstrate PoW.

This is more than just a Twitter replacement. This is the start of humans scaling trust in cyber space. It's really hard for me to articulate why that's important, but I feel it deep within.

We still need improvements to private key management & identity transfer but that will come.

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Discussion

I agree and I believe I hear what you're throwing down. Our reputation is our identity.

Yes - right now it doesn't mean a whole heap other than some online engagement & maybe a tip or 2.

Keys can provide access to restricted rooms & trusted spaces. This is not confined to just cyberspace, it could be easily extended into meatspace.

Exciting times. 🤙

💯

Beautifully written

Thank you sir.

NostRep (whatever it looks like) FTW!

A Web-of-Trust badge score displayed on profiles?

What do you think of member.cash?

Shitcoin.

Bad implementation, or bad idea?

It's a Bitclout and Nostr client all in one. Bitclout is a Shitcoin. No thank you.

Never heard of it. Whatever it is, I’m not pointing at specifics with my point, nor do I think was the OP.

No idea, but the kernel of the idea is there. As you say, the beauty here is organic signal > noise and, for now, no algos.

The algos will be built, however. They are inevitable. Nostr’s architecture lets us do something brand new. No centralised curation necessary.

I also feel it

✊🏾💜

Very well said, the human trust element is huge too I feel. BBS and iRC feels be back!

And humans scaling trust in cyber space... is the first step to scaling trust in the expanding physical space of the globalized world that tribe scale human heuristics have thus far handled rather poorly in many regards.

My comments on it the other day:

@note1e4a0zv9d3nfnv49sfept06v2ggyal8fv6jzr97ax3rjlfv04t9gqxp7tya