Same here. BTC is just not there yet and it’s forced behavior to spend. It does nothing to help BTC IMO. It’s not a viable MOE yet. Exchange to local currency if needed but I’m not in the spend it to help BTC adoption camp.
Preston said it best:
“Blackrock isn't making the fiat price go up!
The countless psychopaths that have held through 70% drops AND bought MORE is why the price goes up.”
I largely see it like you described ... I think the revelation for me was that nostr counts as volume moving around. They really are transactions even if small (will be more valuable after the halving)... and they are my most frequent transaction this year.
Nothing else had that kind of grabbing power. Would love to see that continue with a market place show up
What marketplace will show up with no spending like you two are saying?
I’m not understanding the question.
I didn’t follow his final point. nostr:npub17nvfw7g53nxjghyd2zg552z06cke0jc0k69hj7ns7f9pw26j9kusap4u85 thoughts?
They way I understood his statement was that a Nostr marketplace would increase lightning volume. You’re advocating against spending sats. Can’t have both. So my question is, how will a marketplace dependent on lightning for payments ever thrive if nobody wants to spend sats?
I am not advocating against spending SATS. Pls don’t put words in my mouth. Read again.
I’m taking about day to day. Not Nostr.
Lol not putting words in anyone’s mouth. Would you spend sats on/via Nostr in substantial quantities for goods and services?
I would (I do now for wallets, vpn, etc) that are "medium" merchandise purchases. I would not for major purchases due to capital gains taxes and how much more expensive that would be.
Yes. And have. That’s not what I meant though but I get your point.
I see that no different than zaps though. It’s a Bitcoiner to Bitcoiner transaction.
I’m talking about a true MOE. Spend it daily. It’s not there yet and some want to force that square peg into the round hole.
I think you may have misunderstood.
Point 1: NOSTR has made moving sats and making lightning transactions so frictionless that it became my most used payment network without me realizing it
Point 2: I'm not against spending Bitcoin but in my life I'm focused mostly on saving, accumulating for the long run. I also don't think holding only is bad. It's a use for Bitcoin.
Point 3: I hope a marketplace starts to form here because I think it would lead me and others to spend similar to how we send sats
Point 4: from another thread, I prefer spending $ right now because for major things right now (like a car etc) I would be paying big cap gains tax which will reduce how many sats I can stack in the long run
All fair points. I’m not trying to tell anyone how to use their money. But eventually people are going to need to spend sats on Nostr or Nostr will not be economically viable in its current form.
I believe NOSTR can make a market appealing/frictionless enough that people would sats
I hope so. Whether it’s through sales in a dedicated marketplace, or zaps to content, or ZapplePay subscriptions, I really do hope Nostr can continue its momentum and encourage an economy amongst users. My personal biggest fear is that it won’t happen, leading to ad revenue and KYC fiat payment services being integrated instead of the free flow of sats like right now.
That's a legitimate fear in my book
🥲🫂
I am averaging 1 nostr zap purchase a month here from different vendors for physical items.
A extremely hard to tax, multi headed Medusa of clients and wallets all talking the same math.
Nostr is now my number one store outside of food for physical personnel purchases. It’s hasn’t even hatched
I agree with you. I use $5-$10 and just reload a wallet to spend on Nostr for a period of a month. It gives me some play money and the rest goes into stacking.
We can do both. Zapping Sats aren’t always a loss. I’d rather give sats then a penny.
I’m 2017 there was almost 0 real use case for normies. It was all about hodl.
I get that but that was the first step. This is phase two. We just have to be careful not to spend to many sats on zaps.
It has to become more than play money amounts though for things to be sustainable here. Not saying go out and zap every post you see with a dollar’s worth of sats, but tipping someone a penny doesn’t really incentivize them to do much else for you, and eventually people are serious about creating and building in a sustainable and profitable way WILL turn to other forms of monetization. Zaps won’t provide a full time income to anyone, but if all they provide is a couple pennies here and there then they’re really only for play and fun and Nostr isn’t for actual commerce.
Most of what is on Nostr is only for play and fun rn. I pay for notes that are fun and/or make me think. Most people won’t pay more than that for basic thoughts or memes.
Real content like videos, movies, music, etc have already displayed they can make thousands of dollars.
Nostr needs more users and it needs more real content other than Bitcoin stuff. It’s doing well for it’s short lifespan though.
Slippery slope.
Charge a fee to cover costs. Make the service so good that’s it’s worth the SATS fee.
Expecting zaps to cover isn’t sustainable.
Also never forget about the lowest common denominator. People will and are taking advantage of the “free SATS” model; i.e. taking & not giving.
Correct. There’s literally thousands of bots that posted on Nostr this morning “Hello World #introduction”.
Many new accounts get zapped because we are nice and want to educate folks, but sats are lost to that shit.
I see these tests as positive because it pushes open source software to become better in self sufficient ways. Newbies become collateral damage for basic scams though.
But if one still has fiat to spend is one accumulating as much as possible?
Even if you’re not on a bitcoin standard it makes more sense to use sats at businesses that accept it. It’s just better tech and user experience. Turn the fiat to sats right before the txn if you’re concerned about volatility
I don’t know one place that accepts BTC around me. Not one. I ask and would use BTC but that’s kind of my point. It’s just not a viable MOE yet. At least in the US. And that’s fine. It’s not there yet. So I’ll spend local currency (USD), some of which I may or may not have sold some BTC to obtain.
I was mainly alluding to online purchases, but it is still very difficult to find brick and mortar businesses that take bitcoin. You can buy gift cards on bitrefill but that can be a hassle.
That would mean less sats for me in the long run ... Pay from fiat = no capital gains, pay from corn means every major transaction taxed more which means less left over to hold?
The tax is on the gain, so unless the tax rate is 100% you will come ahead if there was a gain. But yeah taxable events are a major hurdle preventing ppl from spending bitcoin. Strike lets you pay LN invoices with your fiat balance, which I think is a win win. You don’t have a taxable event and the merchant is able to receive sats directly for goods and services
Big fan of the strike workaround and I use it where I can 😁
