Replying to Avatar HannahMR

A big long rant on the madhouse that is Bitcoin...

Ever find yourself in a room full of people who just give you the ick—and you can’t help but wonder, “How did I end up here?”

That’s been me looking around at the Bitcoin world for the past ~3 yrs. It’s been a rough few years on the personal front. I changed my social circle and parted ways with dear old friends. But don’t get me wrong, there are still amazing people here and the Bitcoiners that I now hangout with I genuinely find to be the most interesting and impressive people on the planet. I’d pass on a ticket to the Met gala to go to a dive bar with my fav Bitcoiners! But, looking around at the broader space… it’s ugly out here.

Blatant misogyny, political boot licking, tyrant worship, nonsensical infighting. This is not the behavior of humanity's best and brightest. And we think so highly of ourselves in this space, we are geniuses… right? Well how did all this madness wind up here, with us?

The breakdown of my relationship with one particular Bitcoiner friend of mine is very illustrative of what’s been happening here. This is a person who was a long time anarchist deep in the libertarian world. We connected over shared values, or at least I thought we had. Then the values got eroded, one by one. Liberty! …unless you are a woman, because of course women want to be led by a man. No rulers! …well except Trump, because he’s going to beat those evil libtards with the satanic agenda.

Pain will motivate you, and so I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what happened there. I see three recurring patterns: the perpetual rebel, the disillusioned, and the power hungry.

1. The Perpetual Rebel

Someone suffers a deep injustice at a formative point in life. They engage in righteous rebellion, and that becomes their identity. When one fight ends, they seek another, just to keep feeling like themselves. They aren’t just fighting for something—they’re fighting to stay someone.

2. The Disillusioned

Sometimes there are reality breaking moments in people’s lives. Someone has been told their whole life that the sky is blue, but one day, they look up and it is red. Their whole model of reality breaks, they question everything, they trust no one. They become stuck in disillusionment, always doubting, never grounded.

3. The Power Hungry

Some rebel against their rulers. Their rulers are unjust and are suppressing them. They are filled with righteous anger and join the movements to remove the oppressive leaders. But, while they may have spent years chanting it, it wasn't that they actually wanted “no rulers”, they didn’t want “freedom” in a general sense. They wanted to not be ruled themselves. They wanted freedom and power for themselves. And so, when the time comes, they will support the tyrant that they see as giving them the power to be the ruler of others.

My former friend was to some extent, all three of these things, and the Bitcoin world has a way of attracting these types of people. Bitcoin is a wildly powerful and “disruptive” technology. When you see that, when you get it, it’s mind blowing! It’s a powerful tool for the rebels. It’s a bit of hope for the disillusioned trying to find a new map of the world. It’s also a method of enrichment for those who wish to be above others.

But the perpetual rebel and the disillusioned don’t just get caught up in Bitcoin, they also get caught up in social causes, politics, and all sorts of movements that offer them an enemy to fight or a new grip on reality. And when those seeking power are feeling wealthy, they will exert that power and seek to expand it. And when we recognize the high concentration of these volatile people in the Bitcoin world, it really shouldn’t be a surprise that we have the madness that we do.

But then, it gets worse. Bitcoin gets picked up by a lot of these people and becomes their identity, their religion. … In some circles, Bitcoin is a cult. Beards, guns, steak, and toxic maximalism. Those with a cult-like mindset are also drawn to Bitcoin.

I was born into a Christian doomsday cult and I have to admit, that’s probably a factor in why I find myself standing in this room.

My family left the cult that I was born into when I was 7, and both of my parents then drifted away from Christianity and religious extremism. But that mind set, the us-vs-them, the occult knowledge elitism, the righteousness obsession, that mindset was installed deep in the back of my head during those 7 years, and parts of it have stayed with me.

What really stuck with me was a sense of elitist righteousness as a form of safety from the evils of the world—a kind of magical thinking that promised security and fulfillment if I could just follow a rare, enlightened path and avoid the sinful, misguided sheeple. Given my history with religion, I couldn’t find this path through a church, though I did try a few times. Instead, I found it in economic and political ideologies—first in Austrian economics, where I railed against the evils of communism; then in Libertarianism, railing against the evils of collectivism and authoritarianism—and ultimately in Bitcoin, which seemed to unite these ideas and offer both a sense of purpose and a righteous path.

Bitcoin with its fringe status and world altering potential can really appeal to those seeking elite knowledge—the kind that feels like a righteous path to salvation.

But not everyone in this space is a cultist, a perpetual rebel, the chronically disillusioned, or power hungry. There are brilliant, principled people here. And people who came for the wrong reasons but stayed for the right ones. Still, it’s undeniable: Bitcoin is a magnet for the unbalanced, and that causes real problems.

It’s kinda an asshole move to rant about a problem without offering a solution. But I needed to find the patterns before I could start addressing them. I’m finally in a place where I can begin looking for solutions. And I will.

What do you think the solutions are? What do we do about this? What can we do about this?

IMO these divisions are not natural - they are cultivated by people who want there to be divisions among bitcoiners. And these people are persistent and loud, so it appears that there are a lot of them.

While bitcoin surely fixes a lot, maybe we should cultivate a culture of "bitcoin only, leave the baggage out."

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Leave the baggage out is a great point. So many people feel the need to attach their other ideas to bitcoin. Christianity and being a republican are common annoyances to me. Then to them they no true scotsman people who don't share both because they do.

I'm an atheist and I do post about that sometimes. I don't attach the ideas and demand others make the same connection.

The only exception I tolerate is libertarian, anarchist, and agorist since the nature of bitcoin and the writings of Satoshi both call for reduced government power.

Hmm, that might be a hint and I might oughtta take it. I do post about Christianity and bitcoin fairly regularly, but that's not because I'm on team Christianity - Christians have made it quite clear that I am only welcome if I conform to their ideas, which I won't do. The reason I purposely mix the two is that I recognize their intransigence and see it as a desirable trait for the team that actually matters to me, which is bitcoin/liberty. I also see that in Islam, and I occasionally try to make arguments that they would recognize... They probably also would exclude me unless I conform, but it doesn't matter because the bigger picture matters more to me. But my experience so far has been that they speak in a milder and less condemnatory manner than Christians, and I think that's noteworthy. Personally, I think I'm a Christian, but not part of Christianity, if that makes sense. I would not have any problem attending a mosque or synagogue or Buddhist temple or anything. There are no demons there. Only good people.

Mixing Christianity with being Republican is repulsive. They seem unaware that by doing so, they play the role of Antichrist, which is to say, they push people away from God. They create atheists by their willful ignorance. And the next level up, Zionism... What greater proof could there be that they don't understand the Bible? Man I could rant about that... Gotta restrain myself.

Okay... Sorry. I'm sure you hated reading all this religious crap.

I've unfollowed all the people I was talking about. I don't mind you so much because you are thinking. I couldn't take all the posts from people who use their Christianity as a way to absolve themselves of thought or personal responsibility. Watch how many Christian posts have follow or obey or a synonym in them.

There is also a difference between posting about 2 different topics and trying to make them the same thing. Take ham radio as a more absurd example. I post about it but I don't try to hunt for a convoluted logic I can post to argue that satoshi would want us all to do ham radio.

🤔 actually, I bet Satoshi does want us all doing ham radio...

Christian, anarchist, ham, programmer, and permaculture farmer. Anyone who isn't all of the above isn't a real bitcoiner.

I'm sure there are a couple I missed.

Carnivore too

That obey thing is pretty close to the heart of the matter, both for my beef with Christians and the OP note here. Obey what? They will answer, "god," but that's being clever and evasive. They mean obey them or their team, and their team is just a convenient proxy for themselves. They are literally Antichrist. Antichrist is such a useful concept... I wish people thought about it more. Its not a specific man. Its you... Not saying you specifically - everyone. I can prove that scripturally, I was just reading the relevant verses like 20 minutes ago. What demands obedience? Ego. Antichrist. Jesus said to some people that their father is below and his is above - this isn't some idolatrous assertion of demon-gods in hell and heaven - there's a higher and lower self in everyone, and its the same self in everyone, and one is death and dies, and one is life and doesn't die. Death / da'at requires obedience and it enslaves yourself with sin, and that enslavement to sin gets externalized, the shadow gets pushed onto others. The Christians demanding obedience have not conquered death, and they are not in Christ.

And they can't read this and understand, because they can't separate the symbol from the idol in their mind. Its a tragedy on a cosmic scale, it really is...

I seem to recall verses about a great mass delusion leading everyone to false idols. I don't recall them being taught without explicitly being told that the deluded were outside our church.

The bible is a giant book written over thousands of years. Easy to find an argument for anything you want in there.

There's an apocryphal text (I want to say "secret book of john," but not totally sure) that predicted that the earthly church would be replaced by a counterfeit church. Almost all, and possibly all idk, apocryphal texts were written before the NT was put together. Good thing Jesus was never talking about the earthly Church! I walked away from one denomination (they'd throw a fit for being called a denomination) because of that specific self serving misinterpretation. There were other misinterpretations, but that was the last straw.

They **_are_** cults... the denominations, the churches. Atheists are right in calling then such.

Love what you say about leaving the baggage out. 😃

I find it fascinating that we humans can corrupt anything and everything we touch on. That is the reality of humanity.

We have to learn to focus on what resonates and makes the most sense for us.

I think Bitcoin is truly neutral. It is a tool that can be very powerful or very useless, depending on who wields the tool.

All innovations serve to maximize personal corruption... Maybe too absolute of a way to think, but that's how it seems to me.