It's definitely a valid concern. Apple's guidelines are intentionally vague and open to interpretation, which gives them the power to decide what stays on the App Store and what doesn't. As you pointed out, even something as harmless as profile zaps could be seen as violating their guidelines if they're interpreted a certain way.

Regarding miner fees, there's certainly a possibility that Apple could argue that it violates their policies if it goes against their interests or conflicts with other payment options they offer. It will all come down to how Apple decides to enforce these guidelines when it comes down on them.

But remember, at its core, Nostr is about decentralization and creating an open platform for exchanging signed messages without relying on third-party servers or central authorities like Apple. While getting listed in app stores is always beneficial for visibility purposes but users can still download Nostr app via official channels such as GitHub repositories without needing intermediary services from centralized authority figures which would otherwise limit our freedom of choice.

I haven't look at Google's TOS, but I suspect they will adopt something similar and may start going after "Bitcoin" apps in the future.

Any centralized service can close the doors on its customers. Luckily for Android users, they can load up APKs (for now).

Damn

I think exacly this is why Bitcoin was created. To avoid to be a slave of those mofos anymore.

I told you in the beginning about the vagueness of Apple's terms but you convinced me to convert. I don't regret it and I don't think you should worry about it. Give Apple the middle finger all the way down and like the Phoenix and Damus will be re-erected in a stronger form.

💯

Yes… developers spent years trying to make an App for Blurt… they just gave up and we still earn Blurt crypto via the Web version…. Blurt.blog …. Avoid Apple App Store. Https://Blurt.blog

the devil in the details <3… fuck them

Makes me want to put a #slapplestr across someone’s #cheekstr!

So much for freedom

Phones are just API’s. And, just like Twitter and Reddit, they can change the terms of the deal any time they want.

I was also thinking that when you first signup to Damus and you want to zap, you need to select a wallet to “pay invoice”. So maybe the wording there is the problem. I don’t think Apple came as far as to selecting a lighting wallet, but maybe?

I love Damus. I really do. And I respect how much Apple prioritizes privacy and safety - and this requires a lot of oversight and tons of red tape.

I don’t see a future for this on iOS. I hope I’m wrong, but Bitcoin and Lightning are about self sovereignty. Apple has proven that they can be trusted with user data. But they need to strongly centralize in order to pull that off.

I enjoy my Apple devices, but I’m heading for de-googled Android.

apple is a nice company but not the freedom tech we're looking for

if people can't bring themselves to leave apple they won't be able to do the much harder work necessary to separate money from state either

nostr:nevent1qqs2akuj9g5uy6h3qev2djl8m7vgw3x2wdagupdjlt89g429qfscv6cpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7q3qxtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsxpqqqqqqzuq7ts9

DUH

Agree on the zap splits, disagree on the mining fees. That would be absurd.

I'm pretty sure it'll clear up soon. Zapping is a new approach, and the lower tiers at Apple are playing it safe to keep their jobs.

They made the rule, doesn’t matter how they explain it. Apple sucks and so does Google.

How about “it’s not money, it’s energy” ?

How do web browsers get away with letting you do anything through them according to this policy. Why are Nostr “browsers” (clients) treated differently than http “browsers” (clients) I suspect it’s just because enough people would be outraged at taxing their web activity because they grew up with the web before phone apps? But both http and Nostr are protocols?

What requests from governments does Apple honor ?

Building decentralized apps in a centralized OS gives them the power to censor and ban the apps whenever they want.

Even if it follows the rules they can change the rules anytime they want.

What’s stopping anyone from just posting a receiving address on their profile or LN invoice? Apple can’t really stop that right? No social media app could stop that.

Not when actions and events can have multiple, unknown meanings.

A like in the app can cause your bot to transfer 10k sats, in the background, to the note author.

Repost + like combo could mean "send 50k sats".

Replying with "Love it, your art has inspired me to grow 100x" could be code-word for telling the bot to send 100k sats.

Etc etc

Its already happening, just in small scales. Apple cannot ban "likes" or cryptic replies that *might* trigger a remote payment.

😓

Disagree on mining fees as they seem to be equivalent to bank transfer fees (settlement fees).

All this BS to protect what? Apple Cash 🤣 ?

We need a more equitable environment that fosters innovation and benefits both developers and users.

#zapsforever

Do not be disheartened Will……..

I have always been taught that there is a work around to solve any problem……

You have a lot of people in your corner rooting for you…….

Head up and shoulders back……

You got this!

But those guidelines could litterally apply to most apps where transactions for other purchases wouldn’t be allowed.

Including PayPal, all cRyPtO exchanges… and ironically… iMessage 💀 (sure it’s not an App Store app but the doublethink is nonetheless obvious)

Apple checkmated themselves

So dictatorial Apple needs to embrace new innovation in a much fairer fashion

You can absolutely make a case to them that these are Nostr events and no monetary exchange is happening in-app. Ask them to please provide proof of monetary exchange occuring in-app.

Android

I appreciate the struggle you’re going thru @jb55

I can offer that while I was a tiny bit hesitant to adopt zaps at first, I now find them indispensable. I’ll easily give up Apple than give up zaps if it comes down to that.

Zaps merge the irl experience and the digital experience, bringing both together in a more meaningful way.

Android porting in 3, 2, 1...

Need to be outside the walled gardens

nostr:nevent1qqs2akuj9g5uy6h3qev2djl8m7vgw3x2wdagupdjlt89g429qfscv6cprdmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68y6trdpjhxtn0wfnj7q3qxtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsxpqqqqqqzxckjng

You're better than apples fiat oligarchy, Will.

Spend more time building for us all, and the rest of us will zap you more. We want to, don't let apple gatekeep us.

But for real dude, fuck apple. They aren't friends.

👀

nostr:nevent1qqs2akuj9g5uy6h3qev2djl8m7vgw3x2wdagupdjlt89g429qfscv6cpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfdupphe3t

That's bechare people still build for Apple and buy Apple devices.For instance you created damus for apple first and may be Android later because you believe thats where most of users are. Which is not true at all.

What about going the web-browser route to circumvent App Store?

Users could still bookmark the page on their Home Screen so it feels like an app

Welcoming me to centralization.

This is by design. I’m actually surprised they allow any “crypto” related app on the App Store.

Apple will never allow anyone to bypass them taking 30% it’s that simple

Ya bro they the techno kings and we the digital slaves..thats already been established for decades now....what we gonna do about it?

Could you make Damus into a web app ? Then we all just save Damus to our devices like an app but then apple wouldn’t have control. That could possibly be a solution for android users too. But I’m not expert just a fan of your work. Keep it up!

Yeah they wont delete snapchat or instagram or other drug selling apps

Apple will probably veto this also. 🤔

Not worried at all! (at least in the EU) Alternative AppStores/ Sideloading is what Big Tech with high fences have to comply with in the future…

Will help a brother out

The Add Recipient feature in Blue Wallet (aka send to many) might be a problem.

Frankly, both credit cards and fiat apps like PayPal also process fees. And store apps like Amazon send a part of the transaction to taxes. Meaning there are many other examples of transactions not going 100% to the recipient (particularly due to fiat taxes).

I wish I was a Lawyer to help you find the perfect legal loophole.. but I am not! 😞

Do you plan to release an uncrappled version on the EUSSR when they force crapple to allow extra stores?

Mais quels moyens sur le plan juridique avez-vous contre ce plan pendable de Apple , si vous ne faites rien il y en d'autres et cela je peux parier là dessus de ces grands qui pactisent tous avec les grands leaders lesquels d'avant la pandémie voulaient réglementer le secteur des influenceurs et en même se doter sur le plan technologique pour se préparer à cette nouvelle ère des plateformes décentralisées !? Trop dégoûtée par les pouvoirs politiques

Time for Android.....

I am honestly surprised they don't just have an outright section regarding Cryptocurrencies or handling of legal tender and the likes.

For instance, one could get zapped in Germany but it would basically "mean nothing", as it is not a legal tender here, at all (last i checked, at least).

Credit where it's due, they left a loophole in the guidelines for themselves to abuse it... b'tards. -.-

Do not use apple

have you considered publishing it to altstore.io?

I’ve heard it said apple owns the first or second most valuable network in iOS. But what is the future of a centralized and censored network? How do you build on a foundation you don’t own and can get taken away with a push of a button? How do you build on a foundation you own in isolation?

Indeed, the conundrum of network effects persist.

What’s been your analysis on whether iOS the place to stay/build? What are alternatives?

Thanks for your work, #Damus rocks.

This only ensures that someone develops a Nostr-like phone

As people get sick of the censorship, the free market finds solutions to problems, just like you did

Imagine a cheap phone with all the functionality of iPhone and limitless open source apps downloadable from NostrStore, itself decentralized and uncensorable

Their hardening grip is what will ensure they lose control

Although there are lawyers in my family I’m inclined to agree with Shakespeare on this one .

I thought Epic got this rule overturned a while back... No?🫤

While Apple was once an innovative company, reaching the pinnacle of innovation has led them to adopt a more passive and defensive stance. However, it's crucial to emphasize that this decision could ultimately lead to significant mistakes, as many historical companies have experienced. In the end, Bitcoin and Nostr cannot be stopped, as they are destined to become a worldwide force, regardless of any attempts at regulation. Innovation cannot be stifled.

I hope this doesn't break anyone's heart, but Apple has seemingly been on the evil side for many years now.

Let's keep the 'gift' outside your app, like @elon does with twitter it has a price to use the biggest mobile-phone-customer-base. The price is the government intervention. Web Apps are the way to keep pushing for this. Your app is awesome doing onboard for #nostr. You have done so much for human society !!

Wouldn't argue that about miner fees. 100% of the gift goes to the receiver. The sender just also pays a fee on top, but the fee is not part of the gift.