Apples and oranges. I'd compare nostr to IPFS, Farcaster, bluesky or mastodon —IPFS being a good benchmark.
Nostr and Bitcoin have taproot in common, but are otherwise quite different.
Main issues: dev exodus, and devX is lagging behind peers. IPFS, for instance, has a dedicated community manager. The relay network is neglected; I hope new companies step in or Ditto takes off. Damus is still a great public asset, while it lasts.
User numbers are falling, retention is low (per nostr.band). Vertical growth seems unlikely without a major shift. Despite significant funding, nostr's sideways movement, says something’s wrong. Nobody wants to acknowledge that, though, let alone fix it. So I see that continuing.
Even if there’s a surge, nostr lacks the capacity to match competitors, who are steadily growing. I'd love to see Jack, Tidal, Ditto, or others make a client, or better infrastructure, or a popular new app (maybe AI-driven). For now, nostr relies on goodwill—hopefully that keeps it afloat as a space of freedom for a while yet.
I’m definitely excited to see nostr:npub1q9pehypl9gg8u9ry305eg35amzm9t2r3r9f820p2sem3ffgn23hqj0vcqf and nostr:npub1cashappn03s3cl2ljsdntv0v28e2um5lgx4vjctqjt23pcwzjhsqmtdg5l up the ante for sure. And I’m impressed by what the next version of nostr:npub12vkcxr0luzwp8e673v29eqjhrr7p9vqq8asav85swaepclllj09sylpugg is looking like. I’m also really excited by the music/podcast discovery on nostr:npub1v5ufyh4lkeslgxxcclg8f0hzazhaw7rsrhvfquxzm2fk64c72hps45n0v5 with their new nostr integration. And I assume next tweetdeck style drop from nostr:npub1xtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsevkk5s will be 🔥
I haven’t played with nostr:npub10qdp2fc9ta6vraczxrcs8prqnv69fru2k6s2dj48gqjcylulmtjsg9arpj yet. What excites you about it? And what sort of AI app do you think would be most interesting on nostr?
#ditto is next gen because it's not relay only. So it has a chance of scaling. It has an architecture, Alex has provably scaled things in the past, too. So we know it can be done.
My preferred stack is what I am calling #SAND -- Solid, ActivityPub, Nostr, Ditto.
I think the future is agentic, ie agents are the new apps. And they can communicate over nostr, too.
Cool! I'll play with it.
I'm with you on agents communicating over nostr. openagents.com and fewsats.com are the best examples of this vision I've seen so far. cc nostr:npub1tlv67m7xvlyplzexuynmfpguvyet0sjffce3y8vu0suuyuwgzauqjk7fdm
I guess DVMs as well, though I've yet to find a user friendly way to interact with these - what's the best DVM client right now? cc nostr:npub1mgvwnpsqgrem7jfcwm7pdvdfz2h95mm04r23t8pau2uzxwsdnpgs0gpdjc nostr:npub1l2vyh47mk2p0qlsku7hg0vn29faehy9hy34ygaclpn66ukqp3afqutajft
Im an open agents subscriber. Didnt know about fewsats, looks cool, but requires email to login AFAICT.
I also am looking for something more user friendly than DVMs.
I have may own agent framework in any case called #sandymount and I've tried to add DVMs many times, but yet to get that over the line. I think it will be easier to do next year.
I think with nostr is that you simply need a business to add nostr. Hopefully with a professional relay. No one seems to have done that yet. Which is odd, after all this time.
Thread collapsed
DVMs are more infrastructure imo, I don’t see them as something users will interact with directly (at least for most DVMs). The most used DVM right now is feed sorting algorithms, and clients make this user friendly and call the DVMs in the background (the user may not even know it’s DVMs that are doing the work).
We haven’t really had multi DVM use cases yet (although folks are working on them).
I think of DVMs as modules that could comprise agents, and the space is still so early. For example, we need libraries where you can call a DVM just like you would call an API (a python library for this is on my to do list).
Many people building agents are using lots of APIs right? DVMs would replace these API calls and offer some neat tradeoffs.
Makes sense! Python DVM library seems like a game changer
Yes that would be a plus. I think we might need a lighter version that is easier to get started with and do useful things.
Also I see it going in the direction of cashu integration, is my guess. And cashu want to charge on every tx. That's going to make workflows complex.
I see DVMs getting more complex, not less, and they are already very complex. Perhaps it's a good time to examine the most useful parts of it, and make a simple version. After all, nostr took off when the protocol was a simple 2 page spec. Even nostr core is a beast of complexity now which changes too frequently.
Getting back to simplicity I think is the path to success.
I’m curious what would be simpler than DVMs as they are now, do you have any ideas?
So the idea is, money in, data out. I think that's a great starting point.
And you can have money=0
So in the base case it's just an API, right?
Then there is the discovery. That seems to be a separate part. How to find a machine.
Then there is the payment. ie on-chain, mint, lightning, cashu
Then there is the need to make it fast, ie sub 400ms.
I think make it into small logical micro sections that can be simply implmented and less monolitic.
Thread collapsed
Thread collapsed
Thread collapsed
Thread collapsed
Thread collapsed
Thread collapsed
Thread collapsed
Thread collapsed
